Surviving the Side Hustle

E123 - From Wall Street to Real Estate: Ellen Silverman's Journey

• Coach Rob • Season 1 • Episode 123

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What does it take to completely reinvent your career after 30 years in one industry? In this captivating conversation, we meet Ellen Silverman, who made the bold transition from decades in banking and finance to building a successful real estate career in New York City.

Ellen's story is particularly fascinating because she describes herself as "an introvert in a sales job." As a self-proclaimed math nerd who spent years behind a desk crunching numbers, her journey into the people-oriented world of real estate required developing new skills while leveraging her existing strengths. Her disciplined approach, financial acumen, and passion for property helped her overcome the initial challenges of this major career pivot.

Growing up in New York during the 1960s and 70s gave Ellen unique insights into the city's transformation from a predominantly rental market to today's complex landscape of co-ops and condominiums. She shares how her experience as a native New Yorker helps her guide clients through not just purchasing properties, but understanding neighborhoods, safety, accessibility, and the emotional aspects of finding a home.

The conversation takes fascinating turns into how communication has evolved in business - from the decline of phone calls to the rise of text messaging and social media - and the post-pandemic crisis of isolation affecting personal connections. Ellen provides valuable perspective on the current NYC real estate market, including how political uncertainty is creating both challenges and opportunities for buyers.

For anyone considering a career change, entering real estate, or navigating the daunting NYC property market, Ellen offers practical advice backed by years of experience. Her parting wisdom? "Don't give up, believe in yourself, and don't listen to the naysayers." Follow Ellen on Instagram @EllenJSilverman or email her at ellen.silverman@compass.com to learn more about the NYC home buying process.

Speaker 1:

What's going on and welcome back to another episode of Surviving the Side Hustle. Today I'm super excited because we are joined by Ellen Silverman. We recently connected via social media and she had a pretty interesting story that I'd love to kind of dive into. So, Ellen, welcome to the show. I'm amped that you're here and excited to kind of dive into hearing about your background and such.

Speaker 2:

Oh great. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1:

Of course. Of course, and it was cool, we were chatting just before we started recording. We're essentially neighbors, just like a quick train ride away from each other. Ellen's down in New York City, one of, if not, the greatest cities in the world, and her background's all in real estate, and she's just the go-to person to kind of touch base when you're looking to buy and sell and so much more. So I'm excited to kind of dive in Ellen. Where did you and what brought you to real estate in the first place?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, great question. My background is mostly banking and finance, but I did that for a very long time until it really wasn't fun anymore and it was really time to go. I've always loved real estate. I am a native New Yorker and I bought and sold my own apartment about three or four times in New York on my own. I've always wanted to be a home owner and I love interior design and architecture. I love New York City and I have good financial skills. So all those things led me to go and select a career in real estate after about 30 years on Wall Street select a career in real estate after about 30 years on Wall Street.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's crazy. 30 years on Wall Street is a pretty strong stint down there and it's a great transition for you, especially with all the things that you're enjoying and loving. And I'm interested to hear where you you said you were born and raised in New York.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, powerful place. So what was it like growing up? Obviously, things have kind of changed in the city over the years, especially you said you bought and sold your apartment multiple times and I'm guessing that's through the course of your career, not just when you switched over into real estate, right?

Speaker 2:

Correct.

Speaker 2:

Yes, over into real estate, right, correct. Yes. My first apartment was in 1995 while I was working in banking. But yes, to answer your first question, new York City was completely different in the 60s and 70s when I was growing up here, and I feel like it was a whole different life, a whole different chapter. Sometimes I feel like I've had five different lives.

Speaker 2:

You know, new York at that time was pretty much a rental city. There weren't co-ops and condominiums back then. Everybody rented and it was more of a middle class city and I think that's probably the case with many cities in the United States. We didn't see the crazy surge in real estate values until around the 80s and 90s and 2000s. But growing up here was completely different. But I think as a city kid you learn how to navigate New York, how to walk, how to avoid trouble, how to ride the subways, how to maneuver, how to get around, and you know, you kind of understand, you have an innate understanding of the city where you can have really good and really bad neighborhoods two blocks apart. That's how New York is. There's thousands of neighborhoods and, uh, all different kinds of people living in one Island, so you just get used to that. So those were good skills to have in real estate people skills.

Speaker 1:

You got to be able to communicate and network and and really getting out there. I don't know too much about the banking realm, but when I hear finance and banking I'm thinking numbers, more analytical and kind of like mathematics and kind of keeping to yourself. So I would almost assume that they would be kind of two different sides of the spectrum. So like, how did like? I'm guessing you developed those skills just from going out, being around a lot of people, or was there somebody that kind of taught you how to be more personable and connect on deeper levels? Because I imagine just sitting you would originally just sitting behind a desk all day just crunching numbers and doing different things like that.

Speaker 2:

Yes, no, banking isn't really known for its people skills, especially when I was in banking. I mean. Now I would imagine things have definitely improved. But yeah, I mean, I always say I'm an introvert in a sales job and I definitely was always kind of a math nerd in high school and college and as an analyst, you're correct. You know you're sitting behind a desk and you're crunching numbers and you're meeting deadlines and that's that. So I think, though, I had a lot of you know, innate knowledge about New York, and I really loved real estate. So I think my passion kind of took over some of the shyness that I had or lack of people skills that I had.

Speaker 2:

I'm also very good one-on-one with people. I'm not one for speaking in a crowd or giving speeches or anything like that, but one-on-one. I'm very, very good, anything like that, but one-on-one I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very, very good. And, uh, I think a lot of that comes from the fact that I'm an only child and growing up I was always looking for friends, so I was, in a way, outgoing in that sense, cause I was always looking for friendships, I think as an only kid, you, you know how to be alone, but I always wanted friends. So that, I think, is a skill that has helped me in real estate Learning to I don't want to say be friends with my clients, but at least learning to have conversations and understanding who they are and asking questions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that, really developing the skill and ability to really connect with other individuals, and I can relate to that pretty well. I wasn't an only child, but I was an older brother to my younger sister and my parents got divorced at a young age and that caused me to move around a couple of different school districts. So I was constantly always trying to make new friends and maintain friendships and then when we finally established our town that we were going to call home, which is upstate New York near Poughkeepsie, my mom started dating somebody and eventually ended up getting married and then I became the middle child to an older stepbrother. So then that moved me to the middle child and those things that go with that. But then still navigating friendships and developing and and that whole process of being able to kind of connect and reading people and learning how to have better conversations, asking better questions and and all of this sort, and it really has paid off to be great for myself and my coaching career through the years, because those are skills that a lot of people don't have and I feel like a lot of people are are losing those skills nowadays because of social media and how connected we are and how easy it is to connect and talk, but how disconnected we really are on an actual level.

Speaker 1:

I go to a lot of networking events nowadays where people are just like here, take my business card and then nobody ever actually introduces themselves or anything like that. So I wanna get your take. Do you see a lot of people struggling to connect at different networking events and open houses and stuff? I would imagine you're going to a lot like that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, open houses are okay. I mean, people are there to see the apartment and learn about the building and the amenities and the apartment. So that and I'm you know, and I'm selling and I'm showing and explaining, so that part is is not a problem. But I but my phone never rings anymore. This, this does not ring, but I'm getting you know text messages. I'm you know, I deal with a lot of foreign investors, so I they, they love the WhatsApp to communicate. Lot of foreign investors, so they love the WhatsApp to communicate, and so I'm constantly on WhatsApp and texts and direct messages from Facebook and Instagram and that's how people are communicating.

Speaker 2:

Even email seems to be a little archaic. It's crazy. Unless there's a big attachment I have to send, but the phone seems to be such a disruption for people to send. But the phone seems to be such a disruption for people. Even when I have to make calls, it's people really don't want to talk. They're like, can you please text me? And I'm like, okay, fine, you know it's, it's fine, but but yeah, I mean, I do feel there's there's communication is really suffering and also just face to face meetings, you know, having coffee or lunch, or even with my own friends. It seems like nobody really wants to meet anymore, and I also think the pandemic had a big impact on how we're socializing and how we're relating with one another, and I think there's a big crisis going on with isolation and loneliness. I think there's a big epidemic going on in this country, or maybe the world, for all that you know that there has been a breakdown of communication and relating with each other.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I see that a lot with a lot of my clients and friends and people that I'm kind of connecting with and sharing with my content and things that I teach.

Speaker 1:

A lot of people are struggling with isolation and not understanding who their team is and who they can call on and who, like who they can lean on for support and even who they can just go to for more advice and such like that. And I'm a big fan of hiring a coach or finding a mentor. I've got three or four coaches myself for different things, whether it's my speaking coach, my branding coach or even just like my communication and leadership kind of coach. I got different coaches for everything, and it's really important because I've gone through a lot of different coaching programs and worked with people that weren't so great, so it's been difficult to find good people. Over the years, and I'm interested for you through your banking world and then shifting into real estate, did you have any kind of mentors or role models that kind of led you or showed you kind of the way, or how did you, how did you make your way through?

Speaker 2:

Seat of the pants. You know I banking it was just head down, do your job, work hard. I had. I went to really good school so I knew how to work hard and I knew how to get things done and um, but it was really just, uh, adapting to a very regimented environment in in the banking world. I think in some way those skills definitely helped me with real estate because I am very disciplined and I do treat my business like a job and there are things I do every single day and I do meet my deadlines. I mean they're self-imposed so I'm good at that.

Speaker 2:

But it's, I think, with real estate you are. You're always sort of, you know you are kind of isolated because you don't know who to trust. It's a business where you have to watch your back and you don't want to share too much with other agents, and so it is a little lonely. Yeah, and how do you get around that? I do have some. I have a video coach that I use for to help me get out of my shyness for videos, and I do have a few friends that I will talk to about how to handle difficult deals. But yeah, I mean it isn't easy. I mean being self-employed is a lonely game. It can be yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you said something great there before when how your career in banking really allowed you to develop the discipline and the grit, resilience to kind of handle it. Huge bonus for you because, much like a lot of entrepreneurial solopreneurs, small businesses, realms um, there are a lot of ups and downs, whether you're working with a client and then they decide to stop working any further, or you have somebody who's interested in a property and then they maybe change their mind or switching around. So I imagine there's a lot of ups and downs and it's tough, uh tough, to kind of stick it through, especially when it's when you're starting out and getting getting your feet off the ground. Um, so I'm interested.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um, it's, it's definitely a numbers game. I mean, I do listen to a lot of YouTube videos by the top real estate experts. I, you know, I listened to Barbara Corcoran a lot, I listened to Ryan Serhant a lot, I listened to Robert Refkin. I listened to a lot of, you know, podcasts from other real estate agents so I can hear their day-to-day issues. Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I'm, I think that you, you have to treat this like a job, like a nine at least nine to five job every day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I love that you're listening to a lot of other great people, because that's like an easy source of motivation, inspiration. It allows you to relate to other problems and situations. Part of the reason why I started this podcast right to connect with other entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, side hustlers, people who are starting new projects so that my audience and my clients can also connect, relate and then hopefully grab a couple of tips and tricks from the guests and seeing how they're handling different challenges and solving different problems. For that and shifting right into real estate is tough right off the bat. So what were some of the things that you were going through when you made that decision? Or what was some of your thought process when you were like, okay, this is what I want to do now. Was it a little scary at first? Or were you like super excited and diving right in?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, of course it was scary. I made sure I went to work for brokerage firms, real estate firms that had very, very good training, and I also went to a lot of educational courses at the real estate board of New York. That's our um, I guess, sort of like our uh. You know that they set a lot of policy and rules and they do a lot of uh education for New York city agents. So I kind of immersed myself in a lot of uh learning and education and um, and it took, it took a while before I landed my first deal. It definitely did, and I've been at Compass six years and Compass definitely gives us a lot of tools to help us generate leads. So I finally found a really good company that really helps us grow our business and that has helped.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, the beginning was scary and I had savings to fall back on, and I certainly did. I don't, I don't, you know, it wasn't probably the smartest thing to do, but I, you know, I had no choice. I had to pay my bills, so I had savings to do it. So I guess I should feel lucky that I had resources at the beginning of this career. Um, and I, and I was lucky, um I you know. For anyone who wants to dive headfirst into self-employment, I would say make sure you have at least six months of savings in the bank, because the money will not come immediately. I just don't, that would yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's tough, especially with today's society.

Speaker 1:

Everybody has that instant gratification and they want to have the results and they want to reap the benefits of everything almost immediately but oftentimes forget that there's a lot of work that has to go into it.

Speaker 1:

You said that you chose a firm or brokerage that had a lot of, had a good reputation. They gave you a lot of tools. That doesn't mean that they're just going to give you a lot of opportunity right off the bat. You still have to create the opportunity yourself, and earlier in the our conversation you had shared that you also went to some good schools and things like that to really help you set up for the banking world and realm like that. I'm interested to hear how do you go through your research process for maybe finding schools but also deciding on which firm or brokerage was a good fit for you, because I imagine there's a lot of great ones out there. Because that's a question I always had for me for myself at least when I was looking for good coaches like, okay, how do I know this is a good coach and how do I know that they're trustworthy and they'll be able to set me up the best way possible?

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, yeah Well, new York City has about eight major brokerage firms that are the largest and biggest and have good reputations. At the time when I was doing my license, I was at the New York City Real Estate School, something like that, and a lot of the firms would come and talk to us about their brokerage firms and the training that they would provide. So in that way I learned a lot and I also knew just from being my own buyer and seller real estate. I knew who the major firms were and I also had friends in real estate, so I think it wasn't that difficult to figure out. You know who the better. You know which the who are the better firms, who, which firms do provide the best training.

Speaker 2:

And I also, uh, when and I interviewed a lot of places, so you know cause you have to. Not every firm is for you. It's sort of a, a personality fit, and I think it takes time to figure out the right fit. Um, you know there were certain companies that were fantastic but they weren't right for me. So it's like a job interview. You know it's a give and take, and I think the same thing applies to finding the right coach. You know you have to like each other. You have to feel like you can ask questions and be yourself and that they can help you and you can be honest about you know the things that you're working on and you can be honest about.

Speaker 1:

You know the things that you're working on. Yeah, I agree with that too. It's always a right fit for the coach, for the individual, for everything too. And so if somebody is listening and they're interested, like, in selling or buying or something like that, how does that individual know, or how do they identify, where to find a good realtor or a good brokerage firm?

Speaker 2:

Oh well, I think it may be a lot of. It depends on what they're looking for. If there's someone looking for a very high-end property, then I would. You know how would I go about that? I guess I would look, I would start my search, I would actually go online and go on StreetEasy that's our MLS for New York City and do a search on the type of apartment you're looking for and from there you'll see the listing broker. So I would kind of look for the apartment first rather than look for the right broker. But you can also Google New York City agents and see who pops up and you can certainly research brokers. It's very easy. They all have biographies on their company's website. A lot of brokers now have their own websites and a lot of brokers are on social media, on Instagram, so you can certainly get a sense of the personality, the type of properties they're selling. You know whether you feel you could have a good working relationship with that person.

Speaker 1:

So I've rented essentially my entire professional career, and so I'm not really familiar with how it kind of works about going with it. So if I'm looking to get into it, though, and I'm looking for a property and I see one broker listed, so that's essentially that property is for that broker specifically. So what differentiates between the brokers? How does a broker even get a particular property?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, the brokers that are attached to listings are sales brokers and they represent the seller brokers and they represent the seller. Um, you can. Also, if you want to be represented as a buyer, then you would have to find a buyer's broker, and that you would have to research brokers. Um and um. How would one find a good buyer's broker? Well, um, maybe I would research the top brokers in a particular neighborhood that you're interested in, or I would go and look on Compass or any of the top companies. So that would be probably the best way to start, because they would know the neighborhood, the inventory, what's selling, what isn't selling, what's going to be coming to market. That'd probably be your best bet is to go by which neighborhood you're most interested in.

Speaker 1:

Oh, interesting. And which neighborhoods and areas are you particularly most involved with?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'm most involved with Upper West Side in Manhattan, parts of Harlem as well as Midtown West around Columbus Circle. Those are like my three main areas.

Speaker 1:

And you said something a second ago about some brokers understanding upcoming properties and when they're becoming available. How do brokers know when that happens? Is it just from the relationships with different individuals?

Speaker 2:

Yes, Well, Compass has private exclusives, which means listings that are not advertised on StreetEasy, and those are with brokers that have clients that do not want to advertise to the open market yet. Or there's also brokers that work with landlords and the landlords will say hey, in a month I'm going to have X, Y and Z rentals on the market in September, but I haven't listed them yet. So having good relationships with brokers will give you an inside view of listings that are going to be coming to market soon.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Interesting, very cool. So what's it like when somebody works with you? So I kind of paint the picture for myself, like someone comes to you and you're like hey, ellen, I'm interested in real estate. Where do I even kind of begin? I'm looking to buy something or I'm looking to sell. What does the whole process look like, working with a realtor or yourself?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, I would take them through an interview. I have a list of questions. The top questions are what is your budget? What size apartment are you looking for? Who's the apartment for? What is the purpose of the apartment? Is it a primary residence or is it a pied-à-terre or a investment property? Do you have pets, because some buildings don't allow dogs and cats? What neighborhood are you most interested in? What kind of amenities do you want and need and what are your must-have features of the apartment? For instance um, I gotta have light, I've got to have high ceilings, I have to have a washer dryer. That's a very big thing in new york city washer dryer.

Speaker 2:

Um I have to have a dishwasher um, so I take them through a series of questions and then, um, I would gather I would do a lot of research, I would check various databases and create a collection of listings and send them to the client and see how they feel about what is on the market. We would go and look, because the only way to really understand real estate is by looking and doing and seeing. And you know it's not good to do it online, remotely, it's really tough. I mean, I have a lot of people that buy remotely because they're living in parts of Asia. But it's really, it's really better to be here, boots, you know, feet on the ground and go and look, because I could show you the most fantastic photos. But yet being physically in a space is a whole nother dimension and you have to feel it. You know it's very emotional. I mean, does the space feel good? It might feel good to me, but it might feel horrible to someone else, for whatever reason. Maybe they don't like the view, who knows?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's so true, and I see that a lot too, because since the pandemic, a lot of people were shifting to virtual. So speaking at a lot of different conferences is really cool. It's great you still see a lot of faces, but you definitely miss the energy and the vibe and the whole sense of being there and everybody around and everything, and I imagine it's the same too, like it's cool looking at pictures and things online, but it's definitely not a replacement for actually physically beingcoming, upscale neighborhood of New York City.

Speaker 2:

It's all the way on the west side, but you have to walk through some pretty shady blocks to get there and a lot of buyers once they did that walk were like uh-uh, I'm not spending $5 million on this condo, but I have to walk through these blocks that I don't feel safe in and to me they're fine with me. I'm a native New Yorker. You know I'm used to whatever craziness is on eighth Avenue, you know, in Madison, in near Madison square garden, but you know a lot of people um are are, it's unsettling, they, they, you know they don't want it. And so you really. It's not just buying an apartment, you're buying the neighborhood.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's, that's, very true. What are some. What are some common mistakes or situations or things that people getting into real estate or buying or selling their first property might not think about?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in New York it's really the apartment, the building, the neighborhood. And then what's around the neighborhood? Is it close to subways, is it close to a park? Is it close to food shopping? Because everyone in New York is in a hurry, everything has to be very accessible.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, people, are you saying a lot of individuals fall kind of into just the spot and then they lack the awareness of everything else around them. So you're saying like, think bigger picture. If you're thinking about buying something, oh, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, out there, like what are some of the newest things kind of happening or spaces available Like what? Where do where are people kind of moving?

Speaker 2:

You said upper like Hudson yard is where a lot of people are starting to move down towards. Yeah, um, you know it's an interesting time in in New York city right now. We're in the middle of this uh election for mayor and and it's pretty volatile, it's pretty extreme and a lot of people are a lot of buyers are on the sidelines saying I don't want to buy until I know who the mayor is, and if it's, I don't even like to get into politics, but if certain people win, they're not buying. So right now I think it's a very slow market and I think there's a lot of confusion in the market in New York City as well as the country.

Speaker 2:

But, that said, this is the time to buy when there's a lot of confusion and people are not budging, and it's the time to really go. There's a lot of confusion and people are not budging and it's the time to really go in and make a good deal. Um, I think that prices are coming down a little bit and I am seeing a lot of new developments popping up, um in manhattan as well as in queens, and in and in the boroughs, and if for a first-time homebuyer, I think those opportunities are great and also the rents are just going higher and it's ridiculous. The rents are ridiculously high right now Crazy, crazy expensive. I don't know how young people can do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I guess that's part of New York City's lore is like it's expensive. I don't know how young people can do it. Yeah, I guess that's part of New York City's lore. It's expensive. It's exciting, there's a lot going on. That's what attracts a lot of people, but it can be pretty difficult. Much like a lot of things, though, in life. You got to put in a lot of work, you got to really grind and you got to be smart about a lot of different things too. So, um so, ellen, I want to be courtesy of your time and, uh, I know you're busy. You got a lot of things going on and everything, but so I want to ask, like, if somebody is interested, how do they get in touch with you? Where do they find you, and and what does that even look like, the whole process of getting started with you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you can find me on compass just compasscom and search for me under agents, ellen Silverman, or easier, Instagram at Ellen J Silverman. That's really the best way. You can direct message me or email me, ellen Silverman, at Compass. Compass, and I'd be happy to walk anyone through the home buying process and what the requirements are financially, even if you're not ready but you want information. I'm always happy to help and I have a buyer's guide and I can provide information and put you on my newsletter and start from there, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, you guys heard it there. Follow her on Instagram at Ellen J Silverman, ask her for that buyer's guide so you get some free content and at least some information. And she said she was totally open to answering any questions, even if you're not ready to buy. But if you are ready to buy, just reach out and get the conversation started. Simple DM is as easy as it can be. It sounds like. So that's awesome. Very quick and easy. That's how I like things. It's like quick, efficient and smooth. So I appreciate you coming on sharing a little bit about your insights and what's going on currently, a little bit on your story and how that's kind of helped craft a successful career and then transitioning into another one. So, ellen, this was awesome to chat with you, but before I let you go, I want to ask you if you could boil everything down to one piece of advice. For those younger individuals out there who are getting into the workforce or starting their side hustle. What would you say is the best piece of advice to help them be successful?

Speaker 2:

Oh God, don't give up and believe in yourself. And oh well, I'm giving a lot. And the big one is don't listen to the news and don't listen to the naysayers. There's a lot of crap out there. Everyone has an opinion and I know in the beginning I was giving my power away. You know this person must know more than me and that person knows more than me, and I got to listen to Barbara Corcoran and you know everybody has their specific path and their way of doing it and whatever path you're on, trust that yeah.

Speaker 1:

Boom. I love it. That's powerful stuff. I'm always talking about how it's good to follow information and mimic a lot of information, but it's important to stay true to you and really put your own spin on things and believe in yourself too. So I love that perfect way to kind of end things. Ellen, thank you so much again for coming on. This was really powerful and valuable too. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

You're welcome, thank you.

Speaker 1:

All right guys, Until next time. Peace, peace, peace.