Surviving the Side Hustle

From TV Writing to Tech Innovation: Kyle's Journey of Creative Entrepreneurship and Passion-Driven Success

• Coach Rob • Season 1 • Episode 71

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What happens when an aspiring doctor takes a creative leap into Hollywood and then ventures into entrepreneurship? Join us on this captivating journey with Kyle, a guest whose eclectic career path will inspire you to follow your passion, no matter where it leads. We explore Kyle's transition from TV writing to launching Omliss, a unique movie recommendation app that taps into users' film preferences rather than relying solely on AI. This episode uncovers how Kyle blends creativity with technology to forge new paths and build communities.

Our conversation also addresses the art of navigating career transitions and crafting impactful experiences in diverse settings, from Hollywood to Istanbul. We delve into the challenges Kyle faced in the favor-driven world of entertainment and his decision to pivot when success seemed elusive. His story reveals the delicate balance between persistence and knowing when to seek fresh opportunities, underscoring the importance of aligning your career path with your personal passions and goals.

Finally, we dive into the fascinating intersections of storytelling, technology, and entrepreneurship, drawing from Kyle's innovative projects like Omnilist and The Orphanage. Discover the challenges of merging creative intuition with the structured logic of tech, and how trusting your instincts can guide you toward fulfilling entrepreneurial endeavors. Kyle’s insights offer a refreshing perspective on embracing change, nurturing intuition, and the transformative power of pursuing one's true calling in both personal and professional spheres.

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Speaker 1:

what's up everybody? Today we have Kyle on. Oh man, how is it going?

Speaker 2:

and uh, over in Paris yeah, I'm currently in Paris and it gets dark at eight o'clock, so, uh, you know fun facts more, you know, I guess.

Speaker 1:

Um well, so thank you for making the time, um, on your evening to hop on and kind of share a little bit about, uh, you are and what you've got going on. So with that, I would love to just kind of like dive right in. I know you've got a pretty interesting story and I'd love to kind of hear a little bit more about it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I guess, like you know, a quick version of my life is you know, grew up in Southern California, didn't know a ton going on. I grew up in southern california, I didn't didn't know a ton going on. I grew up in a very small town in a county called riverside. I thought I was gonna be a doctor at first and then I got into meds, got into med school and I realized I didn't want to do that and then I immediately pivoted and went to film school, just on a on a whim, and so I went to nyu and I just really cared about experiences and stories and all that and I felt like my best idea of that at the time.

Speaker 2:

And then I was a TV writer in Hollywood for a decade and then when COVID hit, I just saw how unstable everything was and I was like you know what? Maybe I should try to figure some other things out. And so I just started making businesses and partnering with people and I've had a good handful of those, but the most recent one is Omliss, which is a movie recommendation app, and it was kind of my excuse to really understand the full tech stack, how to manage technical people, how to become more technical and it was just like such a deep, deep hole of crazy things. So it's way more complicated than I ever anticipated, but I'm really proud of, like what we made and, um yeah, so that's, that's kind of me and what I'm up to.

Speaker 1:

So how did you land on omelist and how did how did that become an idea for you?

Speaker 2:

because I feel like that's a genius idea thank you, um, yeah, so like, the thing that's actually really magical about omelist is kind of more of what's happening behind the scenes, and a lot of what you'll see in the world right now is is like ai, ai, ai, and what they're they're trying to do is trying to say, like rob, we'll be able to break you down to your like, fundamental parts and then we'll give you everything you've ever wanted. They're kind of their. The premise is that humans are like and zeros, and I think we're a little more than ones and zeros, and so the way that Omniless works is that you basically go through and you like and dislike various movies and then it'll create like a ranked list of your favorite movies and compare that against other users and then kind of put you in a cluster of your most like people that you're most like and then give you the things that you haven't seen yet that they love the most. So I'm still trying to refine and simplify it, but that's essentially what it is is like. The heart of it is like basically, we are what we prioritize, and how do we, how? What does that mean with other people? Like, are we? Are we around the people that are most like us. Are we actually around people that are just the most aligned with us from a I don't know like an ethic standpoint or like a philosophical standpoint?

Speaker 2:

And so I thought that, like the space between what your first and second movie is is actually like who you are, and I thought that that was like kind of the interesting juice and I was like, okay, so then who would be the next most likely person or person that you're like in the world, like is there somebody in India?

Speaker 2:

Is there somebody like in Australia? Like, and we just don't know. We don't have access to these people. So it was kind of just like a giant filtering algorithm that I was really obsessed with and I just didn't see anybody else doing that. I thought everything else was leaning into AI, and AI, basically, is only as good as the data that it has, and we're dealing with very large language models right now, which means that they have basically all of the internet inside of them and they have synthetic data that they're creating for themselves, but there's just nothing that really leverages similar things like that, and so I wanted to create a very unique data set that optimized and catered to what we were as people and what we prioritized and the magic of that. So that was kind of like why I was drawn to that.

Speaker 1:

But I'm drawn to a lot of different things and I think I have a lot of questions for reality and I think sometimes businesses are the best ways of me being able to get some answers for that yeah, I, I just hearing about the whole process and and everything you were just kind of going over, I couldn't help to think of back in like middle school or like um, back in the days when we had all the dvds. Um, a couple of my friends we would always hang out and we'd try to decide what we're going to watch, and then everybody picks one movie that they don't want to watch and then you take turns, eliminate it until it gets down to the last two left, and then that's how we would decide it. And I feel like yours is like a way like you just got me and all my buddies all around and kind of figuring it out. But that's pretty cool, yeah. Yeah, you were also just mentioning how you a lot of different things kind of snag your interest.

Speaker 1:

You started off by kind of sharing that you originally were going to, or thought you were going to, become a doctor, and then you got into, uh, the movie world. You were a TV show writer, if I believe correctly, and then you're traveling around a whole lot, yeah, and then you're traveling around a whole lot. What does? How do you? How do you get clear on what it is you're kind of focusing on, because it seems like you were kind of spread out all over the place for a while, if not still are kind of Right.

Speaker 2:

So I think, like, whatever I'm currently focused on is like my main thing. But I think, as I get older and I'm curious for yourself, like kind of when, when you look back on things, you're kind of like oh, that was like the thread that I was really into there and I might be doing something that's entirely different, but it's sort of leveraging the same thing here, so it kind of I don't know, it's like just different parts of the same hole. I think, and I I think, honestly, building an app and how I would write a screenplay weren't very different from themselves. I was mainly thinking I want to give the person using this or reading this a very certain experience and, at the end, some sort of thing that they're left with, and whether that's like a new movie to watch or a different idea of like, what does friendship mean to us? Or what does it mean Like to try to reconcile a relationship with a parent that's not around anymore, like you know, like, kind of like various things where I'm like, oh yeah, like how would that happen? And I think like, I think like, in the scatteredness of it all, I think I ultimately just like connecting dots. I like also just thinking about how to blow somebody's mind, like if I'm in like Istanbul and somebody is like there with me and I'm just like, okay, what do they like? And how do I create like an experience where there's like, holy shit, like Istanbul is like the best city in the world, and I think I'm always just searching for that in people, because it feels like magic when somebody's like highly engaged and like present and like loving the food, loving the art, loving just like walking or the architecture, like I think all that kind of relates to who that person is, and so I think it's like curating something. For somebody to have a particular experience has always been my favorite thing and I just like, like I said, connecting dots.

Speaker 2:

Like I was the kid, when I was like six years old, I became just obsessed with tvs. I like not like what was in them also, but like what was technically in them, and so I would like take them apart and try to fix them. And also like whenever I go to a friend's house, I would always look at what's going on behind the TV set and it'd just be like cobwebs and everything and I'm like there's like four remotes you don't need Like everything works here, and so I everything and try to like, make that, and sometimes what I realized then is that, like, even though everything is like using the least amount of power and I got rid of two machines, is that when you do that then people like built that but they don't understand, like, like, they don't want to relearn.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes people build things that might be really inefficient or really complicated or like just needlessly complicated, and I always just wanted to create something really simple and really beautiful, and I think that's when making an app came in was like okay, user experience is really important, and so you have to constantly think like I can make it as complex on the back end as I want, but when it's coming to the person that's going to be engaging with it, I really need to do my due diligence to say, okay, so if I came into this blind, how would I handle this? And does that person want to handle that? So it's also having people that are wanting you to solve the problem that they have is also very important. So I know that was a lot of different things, but I don't know. I think like, whatever the form is that I'm interested in, like the spirit of, it seems very similar.

Speaker 1:

And I noticed in you kind of have like a resilience to a lot of different things, so trying out like med school and then in film and stuff like that, what kind of can you share a little bit on how what your take is and how you kind of continue to move on and look for the new thing, if something, when you, when you identify something to be the wrong fit, um, because I know a lot of individuals who who are harping on one one thing and then sometimes it's it's honorable to watch them kind of continue to try to get better and better and better, but at the end of the day it's like, hey, that's just, that was a wrong, wrong thing, wrong world you were in, you spent too much time. It's time to move on to the next thing. Can you share a little bit about that, because you've been in a bunch of different industries?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a good question. I think I think you kind of like know it right. Like you're at a party and you just feel like that. You're like why am I at this party? And then the only answer is probably you should leave the party.

Speaker 2:

I think you can kind of feel that sometimes and the only thing to kind of weigh on that part is like is it a something costs, or do I just need to be more patient? So it's like it's kind of like you're constantly judging is this worth investing in? Did I just not like put myself out there enough? Did I not ask Rob enough questions to get to the heart of what he really cares about? Like Rob, like why do you like podcasts? Like why would you do this? Like it's a beautiful day outside and you want to like connect with other people. There's people right like across the hallway from you. You know it's like there's all sorts of like questions that you could dig into to try to get to know somebody more, and sometimes you have to like judge what did you try? Do you feel satisfied with what your effort was? Do you believe that it's worth? The juice is worth the squeeze, and I think that the most major industry that I diverted away from was Hollywood that I spent a decade in and went to school to, you know, learn a lot about.

Speaker 2:

And I think that, in sort of leaving that world, I think it was a really conscious decision because I thought that, no matter my effort, I would not be able to succeed. And I think that a lot of what Hollywood is is sort of just like parlaying favors with people, and sometimes what people do is that they all like you'll be like Okay, I'll help you on your show, like will you staff me? Or it's like okay, like I'm in the room with you, but can I have a script. And so there's a lot of shows I've contributed to, but I never got my name on a script. But like there's a lot of my writing on tv that a lot of people didn't realize.

Speaker 2:

And it made it a lot harder to try to get to the next level, because I felt like I was, um, you know, being exploited. And I think when you're in that scenario, then you ask is there an environment where I wouldn't be? And then I was like, okay, I just need to know every person, every showrunner of tv in in LA, and I either knew their assistant or them personally. And it got to the point where I was literally like I don't think there's any creator that I'm aware of of the current entire crop of everybody in Hollywood that I would genuinely really want to work for. There's maybe like one or two people, but like they haven't had an opportunity that would make sense. And so so I was like, okay, I need to figure out some other things, otherwise I'm going to be in compromise situations and I think like compromise isn't bad, but it's about like trying to find the win, win, not like win, lose, and you don't want to be on the loss of everybody else's win.

Speaker 2:

So I think that I just didn't have the creativity anymore to try to figure out what the other ways were in that business other than going way deep into the dark and doing like independent financing. And I started a podcast company because I wanted to help people get some of their scripts made during COVID. And that was kind of like the Trojan horse, where I was like helping show, run and write and produce people's stuff and my own. But then I was also learning what it meant to run a business and the creativity it took to run a business. And and I was like, oh, like, structurally, I'm always trying to figure out, like you know, maybe this these two characters could be one character, or or whatever.

Speaker 2:

I'm getting off on a tangent but, I think leaving, you know leaving, I think leaving a situation I think is important, just like a relationship, you know, chances are. Some people are just like oh, you annoyed me that one time I don't want to be together, and those are the relationships that last like two months. And then there's people that are in relationships for like three, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years, and they're like some people are just like I wanted this to work so badly that I waited until every single future was eliminated of us being together. And I think that you know, I think it's important to find the medium. It's sort of like if something flips on your radar, like you know, keep a tab of it, but if it starts to continually happen over and over again, then it's like really important to sort of like not wait till the last thing is, the last star burns out of that sky. It's sort of being like I, I can kind of see the trajectory here and to save their time and mine, I should probably find the place that values me more, that feeds me more, and then I feel like I'll be able to thrive in more, and I think that's just how I've always felt in any scenario, and so hollywood just felt like another, like know, a previous relationship in some way.

Speaker 2:

And I think the hardest thing is is also kind of gauging it as you get older, because I'm in my 30s now and when I was 22, going into Hollywood like everybody was really new. Everybody that I was like very similar to just got out of college or trying to figure it out, had very, very big dreams and like hadn't really tested a lot of those dreams yet. And you kind of go through the gauntlet of your 20s trying to establish yourself, build skills, just develop more, and I think some people go through that and then they just can't see a world beyond it and the sunken cost is just so high that they would sooner abandon themselves than this idea that they're chasing. And I think I just never wanted to lose the light in my eyes and so I was like I need to go somewhere where I feel like my efforts compound, not, like you know, get taken from me, and so I think moving to a new environment, I do see it's a lot different now in my 30s Because like some people like are married, they already have like the four friends that they want.

Speaker 2:

Like people's like environment statistically get smaller as they get older and so also socially, it becomes very different where it's like okay, like I'm engaging with most people that want to do startups that are younger than me now, and it's just like okay, so I need to, you know, just be aware of that. But it also kind of creates a different dynamic, usually like five years ahead, five years behind. Isn't that different? Because you'll both know like what Rugrats is or something. You'll have kind of cultural overlaps. But the minute you start to go beyond five years, you sort of like exit this pool of similarity and there's like an entirely different, you know vernacular of how people talked growing up, and those people won't know what Rugrats are anymore.

Speaker 1:

So I love. I love the Rugrats reference. Yeah, so can you explain to me a little bit about the timeframe from from when you left Hollywood to when you kind of dove in on your own? Did you dive straight into Omnilist, or was there other projects that you kind of worked through or what was going on Like right after that and when you were kind of like trying to figure out?

Speaker 2:

okay, what is my next move Right? So about a year before COVID happened in 2019, I was kind of at a point where I had representation in Hollywood and I and I like I had fired previous representation and got another representation and I was kind of doing it Like I was talking with showrunners, where I was trying to figure out any future that would be right. Like I don't want any agent, I want the agent and the agent that's right for me. And the moment that it felt like that I that there wasn't anybody and I had known as many people as I possibly could know, then I was like, okay, like maybe this isn't right for me.

Speaker 2:

And what I thought was is like what does representation even do for people? In general? I never see it For all my bosses. They're just kind of hanging out Like it just felt like they were kind of like you know, sort of like trolls that took over the bridges and just like information flows through them and then they just take you know money off the side. But I was like what are they genuinely doing other than just like feeding off the middle?

Speaker 2:

And I was like, okay, let me build a company. I called it the Orphanage. I thought it was a great name and it was kind of a place where creatives could all we could create this sort of structure like this cooperative structure where we could all represent each other. And it was like, you know, most writers get hired from other writers, not agents. And so it was like, okay, let's cut out that middle piece and just collapse the structure and just say 10% goes back into the cooperative and then we'll do distributions for mutual aid, we'll get health insurance, we'll fund it all from that and essentially create a different type of a union, because unions are usually nonprofits and they have a lot of restrictions on their structures. And I'm like, if I could create a for-profit, then I could, you know variance on how I structure the company and what I do with the money. And so I was like why don't I just feed that back into the pool of people?

Speaker 2:

And so I'd started the orphanage, thinking I was going to, you know, kind of create this entity that would be able to kind of build on itself and build community and sort of like, fix all of the ales that I saw that were in Hollywood, where people didn't feel they were supported, they didn't have a place where they could like workshop their stuff. They weren't around peers they, like you know, and also most people who are represented by their agents. They, they very rarely know their other clients. It's like a very like closed environment. So, um, which makes sense. It's like if that's your main commodity, you can't let the commodities interact very much, otherwise they're not gonna, you know, need you very much. So I was like, okay, orphanage, that's what it's gonna be. It's gonna be this, like you know, socialist utopian heaven, built on capitalism and in like directly inserted intollywood. And I ran that for two years and people got staffed and people got, you know, directing gigs and there was a lot of stuff that was happening. From that I was like very proud of the work that we did.

Speaker 2:

But also what I started to realize is that I created the structure in a way that would only thrive in everybody's most ideal versions of themselves. And when somebody wasn't like you know, if somebody was like depressed or having mental health issues, and they're like, hey, I just can't contribute, you know, in this way, you know for a chunk of time, and I'm like, OK then, but you're still getting all these resources from the collective, but you're not contributing to it, and so it was really hard trying to figure out what that dynamic was, because when you come in and you're kind of all equals in some way, it's really hard to understand who's the authority and who's going to enforce the rules, and so that got really tough, and so it was like this ideal. It's kind of like me going back and changing all the cords on somebody's TV, but what I didn't realize is like I wasn't actually realizing who are the people that were going to function into this, and when they were in their most tired, their most, you know, weakened state or in their most vulnerable state, um, and potentially we're gonna I don't know just like not hold up their end of the bargain. You know they they were going to leave, but they still wanted all the benefits, and so it was like this weird thing where then I had to become this like arbiter of generosity or stinginess, and that was like really hard, and I think a lot of the group had a hard time trying to, you know, also take on my job, which I was like wanting. I was like, you know, I had my five people and then I ideally they would all have five people and it would kind of like work that way and then we could all connect. But, um, so that was like a job that I had and then that sort of like was my gateway in was like kind of figuring out creative structures of companies in order to get resources to people to save the animals of hollywood.

Speaker 2:

But what I had also realized is that a lot of people say they want things to be better and different. But it's also hard, because for things to be better or different, it means that there's a sacrifice to happen. Everything like nothing, everything's not brand new, it's not like this free, free reign thing where you could just like go grab sides and nobody's upsetting anybody, like that's not what hollywood is. It's sort of like this giant, you know, city like you know, like let's think of new york city, like it's just been thought about, it's been developed and there's all of these infrastructures and decisions. Like it's all you know. When you look at cities, it's just a millions of decisions that have happened and and they've all happened for various reasons. Some people do it because they really want this thing be really good, and then other people do it because they just want to take as much out of this thing as possible and exploit it and you know.

Speaker 2:

It kind of is this Darwinism thing and it just like taught me a lot about human nature and trying to create systems that have a buffer and a capacity to absorb either when clients aren't being great or when people the employees aren't being great. And what I didn't realize is I was actually learning how to be a founder. Like I didn't even think. I was like, oh, I'm like the ceo of you know the orphanage. I was just like, but it kind of like I kept backing up into it.

Speaker 2:

Like you know, most people start at the or end their career with, you know, making art and creating all these and like investing in movies. I, I started there and so now I'm just like working backwards to like more profitable companies and that's been my journey. And then, yeah, and it's just like you know, there's a lot of other things in between. I tried, I had a podcast company with my partner and then we started a writer's agency and then we kept going. We like we're trying to make an education company and eventually we just like kind of, out of all those parts and those things going through their various iterations, we landed at a ghostwriting memoirs for people. It's a really formidable business that we created for ourselves that still exists to this day. And then during that time, I was like products. I just did all these people businesses. Now I want to do products, like let me just focus on products, and what's better than digital products, if you can figure it out? And so that's how I ended up with Omelist.

Speaker 1:

Nice, and how long has Omelist been out and available?

Speaker 2:

it's been out since the first week of July, so it's been. What is that Like four weeks, three or four months, probably four months, about four months, yeah.

Speaker 1:

All right, so that's pretty awesome. Is it just you now with uh Amlus, or is your partner with it?

Speaker 2:

Uh no, amlus is something that I'm kind of pushing on my own and it's a it's my side project. It's like it's sort of like my excuse to learn more technical, but I also loop in people to help me every once in a while and so I'm trying to be a better coder. It can, it's just it's a tough gig sometimes and so the app is. There's still things I want to do with the app and it's really functional for movies right now, but I wanted to get to TV and I wanted to do these other things, but it's requiring me to know a lot more about you know React and you know a lot of different UI and backend software, yeah, I imagine.

Speaker 1:

So how long have you been learning on all those things, or is it relatively new for yourself too? Because I imagine just kind of picking up and deciding to start to learn how to code is probably not as easy as it seems deciding to start to learn how to code is probably not as easy as it seems.

Speaker 2:

I think it honestly. Yeah, it's like the, it's like the most opposite mental framework of my brain, because when you have, when you're like, when you're writing stories right, you're kind of saying you know what is the most emotionally impactful thing that I'm going to lead up to Like, and it kind of operates from the level of the human like what is this human feeling? And we start operating with code. It kind of is like this. It's like this seek, it's a secret language that has all these rules in it that have been built by people that are highly logical. They're saying if this happens, then this happens, and here's all of my like little code words of how to make that happen, and so there there's always like barriers to entry, because there's kind of this like this constructed complexity from an engineer's mind and it operates honestly very different, I think, than a story and, or at least for how I view story, I think I view story much more as like a like. It's like water, it's like flowing. You know it's like water, it's like flowing. You know it's like a. It's like a very organic thing and I think that technology can often feel very blocky to me, like legos, like it can feel like it can create a structure, but it's not like organic and and I think, like going into that. Then you have to think, like, what are the building blocks of this? I know it's back in database, or how do I want to structure? How, like many times I call this algorithm to run to sort these people into these different things like it doesn't really. It's not like me thinking you know, like, oh, like you know rob's having a hard time. I want him to have a funny story to like engage with and make that makes him feel seen and simultaneously also, like you know, that he's able to enjoy the end of his day with, like with, with coding. It kind of requires you to sort of like focus on just really tangible things like it. And that's why everybody talks about first principles thinking it's because they're like, if you remove everything and just start from the first thing, what is needed to do this? And I think that it's much more of a utilitarian mindset and it can be very hard, I think, especially coming from my version of the world, to think of it. So I'm very good conceptually in thinking of organizations and architecture, but actually the implementation and learning the language of what. You know what I was talking about, like the secret language of code. It often feels like it was constructed from people that were naturally drawn to that, that are like.

Speaker 2:

Probably the most opposite type of person to me is that, you know, I followed emotions for all of my life and now, for the past like year and a half, I've been thinking more about logic and computer systems, trying to get back to creating that emotional effect. Like you know a lot of coders, when I was talking about Omnist, they were just like if there was any merit to it, google would have done it already. And I'm like well then, if you were to think that then there's nothing that's worth doing because Google you would think Google's thought of everything. And I think that just really stuck with me is that you can. You can logic yourself out of doing anything. You can also emotionally rationalize why you don't do anything.

Speaker 2:

But ultimately, the thing that I like care about is like what are you passionate about and are you? Are you like searching for things that make you feel more alive? And I think that tech has the is like actually really artful, but I think it's actually been like constructed largely by a lot of people that aren't aren't thinking of what they're doing as art, and I think that that's like, and I think that's why it's kind of built the way that it is my creative background more into the coding background and that could be the way like a data set is organized and efficiently ran to like how the UI can be beautifully constructed, and so I think that's been like the hardest thing is honestly that mental barrier of what my brain's naturally built to think about.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the way you were just saying. That was just so so intriguing and it's so interesting. I love how you were explaining that. I was really just kind of following along with it. You really now have shifted your brain so hard into the logical world and now you're working your way back to it. That was pretty cool. I appreciate that, thanks, well, I do want to be courteous of the time. So, kyle man, tell us how do we find Omnist and how do we stay up to date with what you've got going on? I imagine this is probably not going to be the last project you're going to be working on, so I'm interested to kind of keep going and following along.

Speaker 2:

No, I appreciate that. Yeah, so omnistio. People can find the app and it's available for, you know, apple and Android phones. And I also have a sub stack that I contribute to twice a week called Founder Core. That's sort of about my lessons as a business owner and also what I'm trying that week. It's kind of like an accountability tool and like a lessons learned, sort of like newsletters, and I think that that's a way to keep up with me.

Speaker 1:

Cool, cool yeah, I like that. Um again, dude, I appreciate this. I feel like uh very well spoken. I'd love listening to your story and hearing about everything. Um, very interesting person. So thank you and uh. But before I let you go, though, I gotta ask you to you know the classic boil and everything down to uh one, one important piece of advice what would you give to somebody who's out there, uh, just kind of starting on their own journey of side hustle or entrepreneurship?

Speaker 2:

I think honestly, like following your gut is, like you know, really overrated. I mean, like I think it's like a lot of people view it as overrated. I think that you should. That would be your most valuable thing.

Speaker 2:

I've always thought that, like, if your gut says, do it, I think you should just do it or try it, because it's going to reinforce it, because it's either going to lead to something good or bad, and I think there's something kind of really deep in how intuition operates. And I think that if you're naturally interested in something and it's not going to hurt anybody or damage your relationships or like land you in jail or be illegal, I think you should try it. Like, because I think it's like really important to sort of foster that so that you don't have regrets, like you should just be, like this is what you should follow your interests, you should follow your passion and you should just try and figure out the way to go to it. And I just think like listening to yourself more, because I think like, as you learn, your gut can learn too, and I think that that's like a really important thing to foster and just like invest in, and so that'd be my yeah I I agree with that.

Speaker 1:

I think that's uh, very, very important and I appreciate that. That's a great, great send-off there. Thank you so much, um, and yeah, thank you again for taking the time to come in. I know it's late over there in paris and, um, it's really cool to connect with you.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate this, thank you no, thank you, rob, I really appreciate it all right, guys talk to you later.