Surviving the Side Hustle
Words That Win: Monica Badiu's Alchemical Mix of Persuasion and Balance in Marketing Mastery
Unlock the mysteries of consumer behavior and persuasion as we sit down with Monica Badiu, an email marketing copywriter with an intriguing story of transformation from a jack-of-all-trades marketer to a master of sales emails. Monica enthralls us with tales of her love for understanding what makes people tick and how this drives her to create emails that not only captivate but convert. She pays tribute to her mentors and the timeless legends of advertising, emphasizing how their wisdom has been instrumental in her approach to blending talent with solid data analysis for crafting messages that resonate.
Dive into the world of data and its profound impact on the art of copywriting with Monica's engaging insights. She unveils her strategies for quickly assimilating a brand's voice and connecting authentically with audiences by tapping into the very heart of customer language and testimonials. Monica further explores the nuances of context in writing, sharing examples like the heightened relevance of weight loss coaching messaging as summer approaches. Her wealth of experience across diverse industries becomes apparent as she discusses the delicate balance of niche specialization and the creation of high-converting content that spans various market sectors.
As our conversation with Monica turns towards the growth and ethics of email marketing, she shares her vision of building lasting business relationships that resonate with personal values and the potential for making a positive impact in the world. We reflect on the changes in email marketing practices, the role of good behavior rules, and the distinct paths of email and social media in fostering customer loyalty. Wrapping up, we address the crucial theme of work-life balance and the importance of prioritizing personal well-being over professional demands. Join us in this enriching dialogue that not only promises insights into the evolving landscape of marketing but also extends an invitation for a continued exchange of ideas and advice for a harmonious work-life integration.
Unlock the mysteries of consumer behavior and persuasion as we sit down with Monica Badiu, an email marketing copywriter with an intriguing story of transformation from a jack-of-all-trades marketer to a master of sales emails. Monica enthralls us with tales of her love for understanding what makes people tick and how this drives her to create emails that not only captivate but convert. She pays tribute to her mentors and the timeless legends of advertising, emphasizing how their wisdom has been instrumental in her approach to blending talent with solid data analysis for crafting messages that resonate.
Dive into the world of data and its profound impact on the art of copywriting with Monica's engaging insights. She unveils her strategies for quickly assimilating a brand's voice and connecting authentically with audiences by tapping into the very heart of customer language and testimonials. Monica further explores the nuances of context in writing, sharing examples like the heightened relevance of weight loss coaching messaging as summer approaches. Her wealth of experience across diverse industries becomes apparent as she discusses the delicate balance of niche specialization and the creation of high-converting content that spans various market sectors.
As our conversation with Monica turns towards the growth and ethics of email marketing, she shares her vision of building lasting business relationships that resonate with personal values and the potential for making a positive impact in the world. We reflect on the changes in email marketing practices, the role of good behavior rules, and the distinct paths of email and social media in fostering customer loyalty. Wrapping up, we address the crucial theme of work-life balance and the importance of prioritizing personal well-being over professional demands. Join us in this enriching dialogue that not only promises insights into the evolving landscape of marketing but also extends an invitation for a continued exchange of ideas and advice for a harmonious work-life integration.
What's going on today? I've got Monica on the show. How is it going?
Speaker 2:Hi Rob, it's great to be here. It's a lovely finally spring day, normal spring day over here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's exactly how it is here. Where are you calling in from?
Speaker 2:I'm in Sinai it's a mountain town in in Romania and yesterday it's been snowing and yesterday it was like three degrees, today it's like 15, so it's kind of crazy wow, yeah, it's finally starting to get beautiful here in the east coast, united States, but that's, and the sun's coming out and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:But let's get off the weather. Let's get into who you are, who you help and what is it that you do.
Speaker 2:Well, you know that thing weather connects people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, my name is Monica Badiu. I am an email marketing copywriter. I focus on the emails that everybody hates to write. It's the sales emails, teaser alert. I work with course creators, coaches and consultants and I help them figure out how to convey their message in a way that is value-based, customer-centric and also linked to actually making bank. So for me it's super fun. I mean, it's everything I love. It's consumer behavior, decision making processes, persuasion influence all of that in one thing, so it's what I love to do.
Speaker 1:Very awesome, and so how did you get into that?
Speaker 2:Very awesome. And so how did you get into that? Well, a long, long time ago. So I've been in marketing for 14 years, I think, or more. I've been doing marketing since my early 20s and over this time I've been like a unicorn. So I've been a marketing manager and I had to do everything. Copywriting was one of the things that were a constant, regardless of the job I had, the client I worked with. So maybe five or six years ago I decided to. I want to niche down. It's too much. I can't just like know everything under marketing.
Speaker 2:And it was just overwhelming. So I figured out what's like my area of expertise, what do I love, what's something that I see myself doing five, ten years from now. So kind of copywriting started to be one of the things that I could niche down. And I found an agency and they were doing funnels for course creators and I said, look, I want to niche down and I want to learn from people who are doing it, maybe better than I do. So over the years we kind of developed the agency and the framework and I started to do more and more of what I loved, which turned out to be sales emails.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's just a little process and time after time just kind of snowballing into it and yeah, a lot of people seem to hate doing the sales emails and such like that, and I love that you touched on the excitement and how you were looking forward to like learning from people who who are kind of like ahead of you or who are doing better than you. So who are some of those mentors that you kind of look to for advice and and really to kind of teach you as you were learning, to kind of niche down and kind of figure out what it is you were specializing figure out what it is you were specializing, so copy hackers have always been like my go-to source.
Speaker 2:I was actually thinking about this the other day when I started doing sales emails. There wasn't a lot of information out there. I didn't know how to even call myself because all the terms out there sounded nasty and it it was like I'm not that person and I'm not like some kind of marketing guru and you know exploiting urgency and fear mongering. So I was looking for something and then I found them and they position email marketing, like what I do as conversion copywriting.
Speaker 2:And it's not just like you know the fancy wordsmith or whatever. No, it's actual data, it's science. Yes, there is a talent for um writing, but more than that, it's just like translating data into a message that moves people. And copy hackers they have been like my go-to source of information and the values they have as a brand are the same values I have as a human being and professional. So I strongly recommend copy hackers.
Speaker 2:And then it's like the old guys in copywriting, like Schwartz and David Ogilvie him as well they have really good perspectives about what it means to be in copywriting and a lot of what I read is honestly not sexy. I have like a 300 page course on consumer behavior.
Speaker 1:I just like randomly go through um, it's like a big textbook almost yes, it's like this.
Speaker 2:I don't think I have it here. I was just like cleaning up my office the other day and then, uh, last two years ago I went back to school, so now I am studying advertising in university.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I get to go back to my early beginning and do the theoretical stuff.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I love the authors that my colleagues hate Like. I read Philip Kotler and he's like the grandfather of modern marketing and I love reading that kind of stuff. So interesting so long answer to your question, but no, that's perfect.
Speaker 1:That's perfect. So it's cool because you got really involved and learned and spent a lot of time learning a lot of material and now you're returning back to school to further develop and get even better in the whole whole industry. Now do you see like are is the same principles from the past still apply today, or are there new things changing? Or does it like flip everything upside down? Or could you explain a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:so it it's not. We're not flipping anything upside down. I mean, honestly, a lot of the things that were developed in the 60s I mean when I'm talking about advertising and copywriting in advertising those still apply. It's honest, like I have goosebumps seriously thinking about it now because you read something that someone in the 60s thought of before, like the internet before, like this explosion of information we have nowadays, and it's crazy how, how it still applies nowadays. And it's simple, it's basic, but it's very effective.
Speaker 2:And what's interesting is not that, oh my god, use this tactic or use this word. No, it's very effective. And what's interesting is not that, oh my God, use this tactic or use this word. No, it's pure human behavior information. That being said, yes, things have changed since we have online marketing and since everybody can go online and basically find any kind of information they want. They can look at you and they can also find 10 of your competitors. In the next 10 minutes and, if they're really committed by like in one hour, they would have a really good image of what's happening in the marketplace. What are their options. They will definitely know. What are the brands they will never buy from or they will never consider. So it's interesting.
Speaker 2:A lot of things remain valid, but with online marketing, a lot of things are changing, and what I try to do is I kind of try to keep my head in two different worlds. To do is I kind of try to keep my head into different worlds. You have the theory from the old days and those concepts still apply, and then I try to be present in a world that is changing very fast and I combine scientific advertising let's call it that with things like what Gabor Maté says about the world we live in, and sociologic studies and books that talk about how we're trying to navigate the world. That actually gives us anxiety and FOMO every single day, all day. So I try to position myself in the middle, you know, using the tactics, treating the reader with respect and also acknowledging the obstacles that they have in consuming the content and in actually like committing to taking an action, whatever that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me. I wanted to ask you because you're talking a lot about the different tactics and the client or the reader and my understanding, different tactics work on different people based off of a piece of copy that speaks to their clients or their future customers, when it's mostly just a one-way conversation. Right, because you help them create copy that just goes out and it's kind of like a broadcast, so it's kind of like one person talking to many. So how do you know how and when to switch the copy, to use different influence tactics?
Speaker 2:Well, it's not necessarily true that it's one of you talking to a lot of people. I mean you could say that, like on social media or maybe on a podcast, when it comes to email marketing, email marketing can be very personal.
Speaker 2:It can be very one-to-one if you know who it is you're talking to and you're making that content about the person on the other end. And now to answer the first part of your question collecting and analyzing data. So data? For a copywriter like me, it means customer avatar, customer language surveys, testimonials, customer support, complaints, comments on YouTube, and then it extends to industry studies. So I know the business of architecture in the US. And then what are the challenges architectures have in 2024 or in a digital world?
Speaker 2:I would look at that. You can look at country reports. So what's happening in the US for the next year? You can look at leaders, opinion leaders. What is this person saying about the world in the next six years?
Speaker 2:Obviously, you can go very granular and you can start simply by looking at your customer language and when you look at that and you ask them, hey, what's your biggest struggle? They're going to tell you. And then you look through that and you identify situations, obstacles that you can help them with, because you can't help everyone with everything. You're going to help a bunch of people with a very few specific items, and that's what you talk about, and then to make it relevant so that they pay attention and they're kind of influenced by what you're talking about. You put it in a context and that context should be relevant to what's happening now or in the short term future.
Speaker 2:So it's April. Right, if I would be someone who is interested in losing weight because that's like a very simple and everybody can relate to that I want to lose weight and it's April and I'm kind of freaking out because you know June, summer is coming. What is it that I can do right now? If I would be a coach, a consultant or a course creator who's helping people with this? That's exactly the context I would talk about. It's April. We have two more months to get to a point where we feel confident about showing off our body. During the summer you can try to hide it, but honestly, do you want to go through a torrid, scorching summer hiding your body? Let's work on that together. So you're talking about. You know the fears, the obstacles they have and you're guiding them, you're influencing them to taking maybe a different approach to weight loss hmm, ah, very interesting.
Speaker 1:Um, and yeah, I love that because it's really diving in deep there. But so do you. How do you? How do you kind of niche down, or do you have just a specific type of course creator that you work with? Or because it's kind of with what you said, you can't just write to everybody and everyone, so how do you, who do you specifically write copy for? Um?
Speaker 2:you know how I said I'm when I was a unicorn. I'm kind of a unicorn now. So over the years I've worked with course creators in like possibly every niche you can think about, from I don't know helping federal employees prepare for retirement, spotting objects in the sky like deep dark sky, whatever. Helping architects build an online business, helping people become proofreaders, helping people figure out how to use social media, helping people with their seo. So in the beginning it was very difficult, but then I figured out that it's not necessarily me, it, it's the brand.
Speaker 2:So what I did is create a process that allows me to learn about the audience, about the brand as fast as possible so I can emulate that brand voice in the emails and then apply my framework for emails that are engaging and that convert.
Speaker 2:That being said, it's not easy and, yes, I do have like preferences for specific creators or coaches and consultants, and this is in the area of like personal development, business development, mindset stuff.
Speaker 2:Now, like I would love to work with Simon S sinek, I would love to work with marisa pierre, with gabord mate these are all people that I actually read and enjoy and I feel like we have a match in terms of personal values and beliefs and like impacting the world. Yeah, so that would be my answer what part of the industry today, what part of what business owners today are actually working towards changing the world? And I know it kind of sounds idealistic, but that's kind of the idea, because what I help them do is basically creating impact, even if it's like one person who is buying. If that person is buying a course or a coaching service and they do the work, that person changes their life, which means that their life being positively impacted, can actually impact the group around them, whether it's friends, co-workers, family. There is a minor, minor, but it's still an impact. Right there is a change.
Speaker 2:So I felt like that that would be my way to kind of contribute to the world, because over the years I've I've worked with people in so many industry industries and businesses selling anything from chalk made in the US to luxury wedding dresses.
Speaker 1:Wow, pretty wide range of different things.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and it's like I work with people from the US, from Canada, from Africa, from Australia, From the US, from Canada, from Africa, from Australia, all over Europe, South America, Asia. I mean I had a lot of opportunity to see what it's like on the other side and navigate different audiences, different business models. So right now, this is what I do and I feel very confident and comfortable with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I really love that you have kind of created like a vetting process for yourself to really determine whether this person's really in it to make a change and make an impact. Because I know for myself I've worked with numerous different people from all different walks of life and it can just be so frustrating when you're working with somebody who doesn't really want to create change or create an impact and I would imagine with you you probably sniff out people right away who are just in it just to sell a quick few dollars or whatever. That doesn't have too too much impact on it. So I really appreciate that you have a little betting system where you're really looking for genuine people who are looking to create change and better somebody somewhere in the world. So that's just powerful there. So I appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you don't have a strong personal mission for doing your business, apart from, like, making money, you're not going to be in business for a long time, for long, and you're not going to enjoy it.
Speaker 2:If you don't make money, then you're going to hate it, right, exactly Whether, whether if you're in it because you want to have an impact and you want to help people, even if you're not making money right now, you're still going to find motivation to keep doing it, even if it's like you're only helping one person versus 100 persons.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, plus, with email marketing and this approach to what I do, you still have to have built a business for a few years to get to a point where we can use your list for the long-term profit. Yeah, you can blast your list right now and make some money, but that list is not necessarily going to love you next month when you come back with a different promotion, right? So you still need to have things in place that only businesses that are in business for a long time are going to have like reputation, a brand, social proof, like testimonials, an actual email list that is not made of traffic bought from India or Pakistan just because it's, you know cheap. So there are some elements of this, but they do help beginners as well. I mean, this is the purpose for me going to like on your podcast. This is why I have my YouTube channel, my own podcast.
Speaker 2:I share a lot of free content to show beginners that they don't need to, you know, be salesy or aggressive with their audience when they can think of their situation, as I'm building this for long-term success and me being in business means that I have an opportunity to create impact and change, whether it's for my family or for a bigger group of people yeah, and I love.
Speaker 1:I love the combination of everything you've got because sounds like you're obviously very data-driven. You really go by the science and the numbers. You really black and white this works here, that works there, but then at the same time you blend in a lot of personal touch, because to me, sales is a lot of relationship building and really understanding the customer and understanding the person that you're selling your product or service to. Because I know me personally, I don't want to be selling my services to somebody who's not the right fit for me, because that just goes back to the vetting process. It makes things harder. It's an uphill battle for both of us. It's already tough as it can be is harder. It's an uphill battle for both of us. It's already tough as it can be.
Speaker 1:So I like to try to make sure that I build a great relationship and I treat my future clients with as much respect as possible so that if we're not a right fit, we can move on to the next person and I think your blend of that personality and making sure that you're respectful to the person because I've talked to people in the past where it's like you just got to sell person Because, I mean, I've talked to people in the past where it's like you just got to sell, sell, sell, keep sending offers, like if they don't buy the first thing, you wait till tomorrow with a new product and a new offer and just keep selling it. And I'm like I don't know how well that works.
Speaker 2:But You're pushing my buttons now. Yeah, I can understand both perspectives, because I was a beginner, a beginner entrepreneur, and I needed the cash flow. So I would say yes to everyone, even though everyone was, well, could you do it for free? And I'm like no, but can I do it for less? Sure, because I need the cash flow, but at some point that approach is not good long-term.
Speaker 2:And I have a client who says, in the beginning, when you're going to start your business, you're basically going to say yes to everyone because you're kind of waiting for a winning lottery ticket and you can't really know who it is you really want to work with until you have had some experiences that have told you definitely no to this type of client, definitely yes to this type of client.
Speaker 2:And yes, you can read and you can look at industry, you can look at whatever other people are doing, but until you have had the experience, it's very hard to have a vetting process because you don't know what you want or don't want. And it's not just like specific to entrepreneurs, like everybody is struggling with this. This is why it's so easy in some instances to sell to people. It's simply because people don't know what they want or don't want. It's simply because people don't know what they want or don't want. So you kind of appeal to them with like a discount and low prices and they buy something. They might hate it, but they bought it and that's because you know they don't know what they want. But if you take control of that narrative, instead of pushing for the sell in an aggressive way and just saying, well, if you're patient enough and if you give them enough offers and enough discounts, eventually they're going to convert. That's like the lowest quality form of marketing.
Speaker 2:On the other hand, if you're in this with the idea, I'm also building a brand and I have respect towards my audience. You're in this with the idea, I'm also building a brand and I have respect towards my audience. You're not just like, you're not telling them hey, buy this, because whatever, it's amazing. It's like, hey, you have this problem, you're not alone. So many other people have this problem. Here's what others have tried, here's what we're doing and based on that, you can open like a whole new world of opportunities for your audience. And in this model, you're not selling aggressively, you're not spamming. You're educating, informing, nurturing and if they do want to buy something, obviously you have a product, you're going to expose it. But it's not like if you don't buy this, your world is going to crush. It's like you can actually say look, this isn't for everybody, it might not be for you, and that is perfectly fine. If you want to continue to receive our emails and hear from us, we are still here because our mission and our commitment is towards our audience.
Speaker 1:We are here to help you with this rather than we're here to make money yeah, yeah, I love that because I was just speaking with a good friend of mine and he he, he like trims his email list. Every so often he'll send out a, an email being like hey, just checking in with you guys, we're making a shift with some of our content coming up soon. If this is something that you are interested in, then great, stay tuned. But if this is something that you might not be as interested in, encourage you to unsubscribe now or kind of like thing. For that is there a benefit to doing that? Does that help?
Speaker 2:yes, it does your friend is smart so I would say, once or twice a year you should do something like that and I know this. This is scary for a lot of people because, like you, work hard to get that email list to where it is right now yeah and this is where things get tricky, because a lot of people they don't know about things like email list, health and deliverability.
Speaker 2:So if you have 10,000 people on your email list but only 1,000 are actually opening your email, your emails, that's not helpful. It's just like weight dead weight that your business is carrying because you're paying for those 9,000 other people who aren't opening.
Speaker 2:And, over time, those people being disengaged is actually going to impact your email health list, which can actually result in you being inboxed in the wrong part of their Gmail or Yahoo mail account. Whatever Hotmail they're going to go to promotion or spam. Because the algorithm is like well, a lot of people who are receiving emails from this account or from this domain, they're not really looking at the email. It's either not opened, it maybe goes straight to spam, it's maybe deleted on the spot, maybe it doesn't even hit their actual inbox, which tells the algorithm this might be a low-quality sender, which tells the algorithm this might be a low quality sender. And we're into like protecting our audience and we want to make sure that the emails they get are actually engaging and interesting and relevant to this specific user.
Speaker 2:So over time you're going to see less and less engagement, lower open rates, and that sucks because if you do have an email list and you are sending emails, you want to make sure that there are people who are getting your emails, opening your emails, clicking your emails. So if you have 10,000 people and 9,000 are disengaged, doing a regular cleanup is essential. What your friend is doing is called a re-engagement campaign and for me, it's usually like four emails and the whole purpose of those emails is to get people to become active, meaning opening or clicking the email At that point. Whether they choose to stay or leave, that's fine. If they unsubscribe themselves, that is perfect for you. It's going to increase your unsubscription rate a little bit temporarily, but over time that's going to help you because you're going to get to see better open rates simply because you're sending your emails to people who actually want to receive them, and that's what you want yeah so, but this kind of so this reminds me of of social media now.
Speaker 1:So because for so long, everyone always talked about like growing your email list, because you have direct communication with your recipients, whereas on social social media, you fall victim to whatever Instagram or Facebook is doing at the time, and if you're creating content on there similar type of thing If you buy all your followers on Instagram and nobody's engaging with your content, then your content that you post is going to start to have a lower reach. It's not going to reach as many people. So this sounds the same thing with email. Does email still hold up on the top spot, then? Because it sounds like now I'm falling victim to Gmail. So if Gmail goes down, all my people are lost where that used to be the gold standard. And now if I don't have great content or people aren't following or engaging with my emails, that's going to affect me as well. So is email marketing similar to social media marketing? Now?
Speaker 2:No, I wouldn't say that it's to that extent. There are some good behavior rules. Obviously, if you're going to spam everyone, why would the algorithm want to send your spam to even more people? If you think about it, there are a lot of people who that's what they do they spam. So Gmail and Yahoo.
Speaker 2:they need to figure out ways to protect their users, right yeah if I have a gmail account and all I get is spam and I'm not protected, I don't feel protected and I'm not going to use gmail anymore. So these rules are there to protect you in your inbox from potential spam, hacking and all the nasty things with viruses, but at the same time it ideally allows you to kind of filter the content that comes your way Now we have better rules for how you can email someone.
Speaker 2:But if you, I know if you remember, but like in the early days of email marketing, you could buy an email list like millions, maybe even of accounts, and you'd get spam right. Who the hell is this person and what's what's him doing? What's he doing in my inbox?
Speaker 2:yeah same goes for europe. We now have gdpr, but before that I could email anybody I would want without consequences, right? So then there's no benefit. How can I be protected? Because if I give my consent to only a few people, but then everybody can actually email me, then what's the point of me using email marketing as like a channel? You know?
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah, there's no control.
Speaker 2:Whereas with social media, the algorithm, I feel like it doesn't work towards protecting the user. It kind of works on. Let's make as much money as possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:So there are different channels and you're going to use social media and email marketing for different purposes. I mean social media is usually used for brand awareness, maybe brand fidelity like you have a strong community Whereas email marketing is used a lot for conversion, for fidelity. You use them with different steps in your marketing strategy Because when you're going to start you're not going to have any email list. You're still going to need a channel for brand awareness that's going to send traffic to your email list or to your website. So some social media you're still going to need to your email list or to your website. So some social media you're still going to need, just like you would be, I know, using Google for traffic.
Speaker 2:Right, they just released an algorithm I think it was in April or March and it sent so many people in complete despair. We have a client 40% of their traffic, I think it disappeared overnight because of this, and if you go into SEO communities, you're going to see a lot of people who are struggling with something similar. Unfortunately, these are tools and channels. You don't really own all of these. If you try to play by the rules because remember, it's not your space, it's basically their space. Right, they're allowing you to rent advertising space on their like I don't know platform on their building.
Speaker 2:If they decide to take it down, or if they decide to build something in front of it.
Speaker 1:That's it yeah, now that's a great analogy. I love that. That's awesome there. Um, so do you so? So do you help your clients with this whole process of like the um, like coaching them through everything, or do you strictly just write copy?
Speaker 2:I do coaching and consultancy. I actually coached for two years dozens of course creators under a signature coaching program at DDM and I've been doing that as well as a freelancer and under my own brand. And I've been doing that as well as a freelancer and under my own brand, and I do everything in terms of email marketing, like automation, building the offer, optimizing the offer, helping them figure out their customer avatar, helping them with segmentation, helping them with email cleaning and building their health, deliverability, reagement, nurture. So there's a lot and it's part of it is obviously consultancy, if you want to do it on your own and another part is done for you where I write for you now going back to like earlier in the episode.
Speaker 2:Not a lot of people actually get to work with me one-on-one to have me write their copy for various reasons, but I do have a lot more consultancy offers available oh, interesting.
Speaker 1:You have courses and stuff that you put together because you work with a lot of course, creators I do, just like.
Speaker 2:My imposter syndrome is like not making it easy to publish it. I do have an e-book I just released, I think two months ago, and it's teaching my framework for using urgency in emails and I'm not tapping into. Oh my God, the discount is going to expire.
Speaker 1:I actually have 30 seconds. Yeah, is going to expire. I actually. You have 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually coach procrastination in those emails and different forms of procrastination. So I'm actually acknowledging You've seen these emails, You've heard me talk about this before which tells me a couple of things. Either you think I'm full of shit or there's something else deeper holding you back and it's manifesting as procrastination and then, I talk about that and I share like three examples of emails they can use. I do have a course that I haven't yet published yet.
Speaker 1:Soon, hopefully soon right.
Speaker 2:Well, my coach is like you're going to do it in June, right, you're going to do it in June. I might do it in June, I don't know. I'll see.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, so it sounds like you've got that coming out in June. You do a lot of consulting and done-for-you kind of work. Where do you see your business yourself, your copywriting world, kind of going this year or two years down the road? Or what is your end goal with everything with copy?
Speaker 2:I love that question. It's something that I keep asking myself every few months. Any changes. So next year will be my last year in school.
Speaker 2:And the reason I went to school, back to formal training, was one for me to learn the puzzle pieces that I didn't have because I learned marketing by myself, but also because I want to train people in email marketing like a formally approach, and I'm launching in Romania this. It's going to be called Marketing School and it's going to have email marketing and a few other things, and that's going to allow me to have this licensed, formal way of actually delivering this training in the world For me as a copywriter. I would love to hit one of my top like dream 100 clients over the next 12 to 24 months and who knows? Um, I'm working on mindset issues that are kind of holding me back to go after these people and get in touch with them, because I'm in a niche and it's like the people I would love to work with. They're, like you know, the A-level kind of business, so I'm trying to figure out how do I reach them and how do I feel confident enough to do that, and I would love to speak on a stage and to teach about this approach to email marketing and digital marketing, cause I was kind of surprised last year when I was doing more of these podcast episodes and I was doing them with people who are in marketing and I was like, how, how, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:People are like there's no way you can sell with email without it being spammy or aggressive. It's like that's not what they do. I mean, look at the numbers, how? So, yeah, I would like to talk more about that. I mean, that's the whole point with me going more visible online, because it's honestly not about me as a copywriter. It's about this approach, because it's honestly not about me as a copywriter. It's about this approach and my belief that, as brands, we have responsibility towards our audience and what we put out in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:We can create impact and change, but we have to like kind of feel confident, you know, about our voice, about what we deliver, all the potential for transformation that we can deliver. And, honestly, sometimes I am more of a coach rather than a copywriter, because I talk to course creators and they have amazing courses and they have amazing results, but they're so terrified about conveying what's possible. It just makes them feel like tiny. And I keep telling them and it's something that I tell myself as well there are people who have 1% of the experience or respect towards your customer who are now out there targeting your ideal audience with discounts and ads and they're gonna grab their money and they're gonna waste your time and they're gonna end up like your audience is gonna be disappointed and frustrated and they're gonna feel unmotivated to try again. It's actually your responsibility to show up and be the leader your audience is waiting for, so I try to remind myself that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's so. That's so important Because my background being in strength and conditioning and personal training that that whole industry gets such a bad rep. Like you think, strength and conditioning coaches you're just in the gym moving weights around, grunting and doing sprints and stuff like that and then personal training it gets a bad rep that nobody really understands what they're doing. They're just in the gym doing random things, and that was always frustrating for me, being in the industry and putting the research first and making sure that I studied and showing up as the best version that I could, just to get brushed off by people because they've had previously bad experiences. So that's so true to continue to remind yourself and keep going forward with all of that.
Speaker 2:It's like a relationship, right. You like someone, they like you back. But they come with baggage, right, and if you really want to continue in that relationship, you need to figure out how to deal with with baggage, right, and if you really want to continue in that relationship, you need to figure out how to deal with the baggage. What are you going to do with it? And it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you can't ignore it. It's actually something that I do. In my emails. I actually talk about the events, the situations when they've tried things and it did not work as they hoped for and I positioned the brand as like. I'm going to be honest with you from the beginning. This is what I can do, this is how I can help you, but you're still going to need to do something. If you're confident or if you're comfortable with this and you're ready to commit, I am here to help you and I have all these tools to be there for you. But what happened in the past is in the past. You can't let it decide your future.
Speaker 1:So true, so true. Well, I do want to be courteous of your time. I know we're kind of getting a little bit past where I was intended to kind of hold you up on here, so I appreciate you hanging around a little bit more. And so how do people get in touch with you? How do they work with you? You're very busy. You're finishing up school and it sounds like it's going to be even harder to kind of work one-on-one with you. So where do people get to you now so that they can start talking and working with you?
Speaker 2:So there are two ways you can actually work with me. One is you can apply for a call on my website. It's monicabadioucom, it's my name, and if I have room or if you're a good fit, we're going to work together. Or you can go to the agency. I work with Data Driven Marketing and, again, they have their own vetting process. But if you're looking for, like, a more comprehensive approach, they're awesome. They're going to help you not just with marketing, with copywriting, they're going to help you with everything. It's fabulous. So these are the two ways you can actually get to work with me. Again, there's going to be a pre-vetting process. If you don't want that, if you want to just see, like, what's the deal with me, you can find me on YouTube. I do email reviews. I have something called Copywriting Confidential where I share tutorials and copywriting exercises. I have my own podcast. I mean, if you really want to find me and learn from me, you're going to find me.
Speaker 1:Quick search right.
Speaker 2:Quick search yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, Monica, I appreciate so much for you taking the time and being on today, but before I let you go, I got to ask you what would be your number one piece of advice for surviving the side hustle.
Speaker 2:Take breaks, Ah Take breaks Take breaks.
Speaker 2:I mean I travel a combined amount of like three months per year and sometimes I do work while I travel, like I write from the beach or whatever. And being remote and having this freedom to have this side hustle or whatever is good, but it's exhausting. So every now and again, just like, take a break. Nothing is going to happen if you take the weekend off and when I say that I actually mean like not having your phone, not having your laptop Ideally go somewhere where you can be off the grid, because you can't really find the motivation and the clarity of mind to go after whatever your goals are if you don't take a break. And this is coming from a workaholic who's hit burnout so many damn times, colleague, who's hit burnout so many damn times. I had to become a mom to realize that I was going down in like an infinite cycle of like woohoo and then, oh, my God, I don't want to get up for my bed. So, yeah, take breaks.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, that's something I need to make sure that I start working on a little bit more and know a lot of. Now. A lot of my buddies and friends and clients all need to hear that message loud and clear. So I appreciate that and again, thank you so much for coming on and I'd love to have you back on maybe again down the road once you have your case published Maybe.
Speaker 2:Whenever you want me, I'll be back. I enjoy talking to you. I hope the people who are listening find this helpful. If you guys have questions, drop a comment, let Rob know and I'll answer to as many as I can.
Speaker 1:Awesome, I appreciate it so much. Thank you so much and talk to you guys later.