Snapping Success: Harnessing a Legal Mind for Photographic Innovation

Discover the unexpected synergy between law and photography as we sit down with Elliot, an attorney whose creativity couldn't be contained to the courtroom. He shares his transformative journey, from harnessing the quiet of the pandemic to develop a vibrant side hustle in photography and content creation. Elliot's story is a testament to the magic that unfolds when professional rigor meets artistic passion, revealing how networking has been the linchpin in expanding his model photography business. This conversation will inspire you to consider the untapped potential that lies in marrying your own career with a creative pursuit.

Venture into the world of self-taught photography with us, as we peel back the curtain on the learning process that can lead to carving out a unique photographic identity. Elliot and I dissect the 'grocery store approach'—a strategy for selectively absorbing knowledge and skills to craft your personal signature behind the lens. We weigh the pros and cons of mentors and formal training against the invaluable experience of trial and error and hands-on exploration. For anyone who's ever been intimidated by the prospect of picking up a new skill, this segment is an empowering reminder that the tools for growth are often at our fingertips.

Wrapping up, we confront the specter of perfectionism that haunts many entrepreneurs and content creators. Elliot offers sage advice on how embracing the learning curve and valuing progress over perfection can pave the way for success in a side hustle. We leave you with insights on overcoming skepticism and how to stay committed and joyful in your endeavors, no matter how challenging they may seem. For those eager to follow Elliot's work or embark on their own side hustle journey, this episode serves as both a resource and a rallying cry to trust in your abilities and the exciting process of discovery.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:39

What's going on? We've got Elliot on today. Dude, recent connection through a mutual friend, Just getting to know you a little bit, like about a week or so ago, I immediately connected with you. Thought you were a great dude. You've got some interesting things to talk about. I'd love to dive into the story, but before that, dude, how are you doing man? How's your week going?

Speaker 2: 1:01

Doing great man, I can't complain, just another week in the life, so no complaints here. How are you doing?

Speaker 1: 1:06

I'm doing great man. I'm trying to stay busy as much as possible without overflowing and dying. It's trying to keep the balance in the right side of the spectrum here. So I know you got a couple different hats depending on which day or mood. I guess Would you mind kind of sharing a little bit about that, a little bit who you are, what are the different things you kind of do?

Speaker 2: 1:31

Yeah, absolutely. So I kind of grew up the traditional route. You know what I mean. I went to school, went to college, decided to go to law school, for better or for worse, became an attorney.

Speaker 2: 1:46

I've been doing that for like three years now, but I think there was always just like a burning creative side of me that I never really fully unleashed. So I figured, you know, while I was at it, I would try to maybe pick up some side hustles. Um, not that I needed to, but, um, I felt like it was part of me that hadn't been fulfilled yet. So, um, that's when I started getting into a little bit of video creation. I started to pick up a camera, take some photos here and there, and one thing led to another. So I do a lot of foodie content creation. Now I work with restaurants and other bloggers and I just try to create compelling video, and it's been really fun for me. And then, on top of that, I have really picked up on my photography business and I do shoots, I do events, I do a lot of model shoots, I do comp cards um that's also just an amazing time.

Speaker 2: 2:52

So, um, I'm excited to see how long I can keep going with this. It's a it's a lot to handle at times, but, um, you know, when you're doing something that you genuinely enjoy doing, it doesn't feel like you're doing anything, so so, far.

Speaker 1: 3:05

Yeah, so true, yeah. So what made you gravitate towards the camera in the first place?

Speaker 2: 3:12

You know that's a good question. So this all kind of happened when COVID hit.

Speaker 2: 3:17

I was bored at home for a few months there. So I figured, ok, now might be a good time, uh, to pick up some new hobbies, figure something out. Um, I've always been kind of just uh interested in photography. I've always kind of just like liked looking at photos and, um, I I've always followed a lot of photographers on social media and stuff and just seen the photos that they take and I've always thought it was cool to just like work with the camera, find cool shots, find cool angle. The editing was always really interesting for me, um, so I figured, you know what, why not? You know now's the time to do it. So picked up a camera, um, started working with you know just friends, people I knew, and uh, one thing kind of just led to another nice.

Speaker 1: 4:03

Yeah, the snowball kind of approach. Huh, just like one thing, another thing and start stacking up.

Speaker 2: 4:10

But it really. Life really does work like that. Um, the domino effect, I call it. Yeah, it's uh. You have one success and then you just gain this like momentum. I don't know where it comes from, but things just tend to. You know, when it rains, it pours in both directions.

Speaker 1: 4:25

I feel like so yeah, um yeah, you have a pretty healthy mix of things that you shoot for photography too, but specifically the food stuff. Right, that's like the main, the main stuff that you go for restaurants and such food.

Speaker 2: 4:41

It's more like content creation, video, um. I like to kind of give people an impression of what it feels like to be at the restaurant um a lot of videoing.

Speaker 2: 4:52

It's a lot of um, kind of like, you know, picking up the food with a fork, spinning it around, you know showing it, like things like that, you know, because I feel like, I feel like the restaurant experience is, is very dynamic. It's not necessarily something that can be captured with just a photo, um, but as far as the photography goes, it's it's more so um, it's a lot of just like models and people who are trying to make their you know, make make it in the modeling industry. I help them with like exposure, I try to take cool photos of them. I, you know, I do a lot of like digital and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 5:25

I've also had the pleasure of working with very established jig models, which has been awesome.

Speaker 1: 5:30

That's pretty cool. So, so how did you, how did you, how did you start to grow your, like, the modeling aspect of the business? Because the restaurants, I'm sure, the endless supply of those, you can find them anywhere and everywhere. But how did you start attracting models and and growing that kind of side of the photography business?

Speaker 2: 5:51

really just I I can't stress this enough it's just all network, you know it's. It's super cliche that it's who you know, who you know, not what you know, but that really is the case um, a lot of the time. Um, so I, I got lucky, you know, I was, I go out a lot just in la and I try to meet people, whatnot and I luckily became friends with um, with a girl who models, and she's also has her own modeling agents, you know. So she was one of the first people. I was just like hey, like I have a camera, why don't we shoot? Some time and a lot of the time, you'll you'll find people that are just really nice and open about trying, you know, trying things out with people and building portfolios with you.

Speaker 2: 6:33

So, um, I shot with her. Luckily, that went well. And then you know people, then she just starts sending me models and then I, you know, now I have a, now I have a profile, I have pictures of people and now I can start reaching out because I'm a little bit more established. And then it's just like a cascade effect people just start, you know, liking your work and people start reaching out to you and you don't even have to reach out to people anymore and it just goes from there. It kind of just blossoms from there.

Speaker 1: 6:58

So yeah, that's how I got started with that, yeah now was she your first person that you kind of like, introduced you to shooting models specifically um, yeah, I mean, she was the first model that I, that I shot I mean, everyone else was kind of just like friends and just like random.

Speaker 2: 7:16

Yeah, just like I. I used to help guys with their like hinge profiles, a lot kind of stuff like that. So she was the first like established model that I shot with and so, yeah, that's how I kind of that's how I got into that kind of that side of it.

Speaker 1: 7:32

Cool. So what? What are your like some of your goals for the photography business? Are you trying to grow it into like a full fledged kind of business? Are you just looking to continue to shoot for fun, or where are you? What's your game plan for for that whole aspect?

Speaker 2: 7:47

So that's a good question. So I mean, I do want to grow it as much as possible and have as many clients as possible, obviously, but at the same time, I feel like as soon as something starts to feel like a chore, it kind of loses its its, its charm and, yeah, um, the most important thing for me is to continue to enjoy it. Um. So I think that I'm kind of tiptoeing that line where, like, I want to grow it, but not too much, to where it's no longer fun, and I think that's a that's a fine line, um, because, um, I don't even think people are as good at at things when, when, when, it's no longer fun, so, um, so that's kind of where I'm at with that. I think I'm already happy with where I am with it. Um, you know, getting gigs here and there, getting invited to events, um, shooting for people, shooting for clients that I've already had, you know, having recurring clients, um, and just networking and all of that.

Speaker 2: 8:47

That's all been super fun for me and just you know, having so many different things going on in my life really helps with like not feeling the pressure to like expand this into some sort of full-fledged business, um. So I'm kind of happy with where I am right now. Obviously there's there's room for growth, uh, and I'm definitely open to that. So I'm kind of happy with where I am right now. Obviously there's there's room for growth, uh, and I'm I'm definitely open to that.

Speaker 1: 9:05

So that's kind of where I am.

Speaker 1: 9:08

So you're talking about keeping it, making sure that you maintain the fun aspect of the whole thing, um, but if it's something that you, like, are genuinely enjoy doing, how do you, how do you set the boundaries so that you don't cross into that stage where, okay, now it's actually becoming a chore, because I'm sure there are a lot of people who do a lot of things because they enjoy doing it, and then they get really good at it and then that starts to snowball and then they trap themselves in a job and then they're stuck working another job, whereas they were just trying to start off doing it for fun in the first place I think just maintaining your personal, like artistic integrity is kind of the big thing there.

Speaker 2: 9:53

Um, so, with my coming, so with my photography, like where I am, it's just like it's a total. It feels almost like a free-for-all, which is amazing for me. You know what I mean. Like, I'm working with models and obviously I'm super interested in what the models are after, um, but I also get to, you know, go in my own personal direction and work with the models to create something that I'm also interested in, and that's why that's why I love, like, these sorts of creative pursuits so much is because they offer that flexibility and people are just like especially in LA, and the people I've worked with, like everyone is just like so open to just creating new things and nobody really feels bogged down in this industry, um, by any sort of outside pressure, which is great. Um, I think whenever you have that personal freedom to just, you know, do what feels right to you, that definitely helps keep it fun and light, and I think that the results are also a lot better that way.

Speaker 1: 10:54

Yeah, I mean, that's how you grow and grow your creativity and still having that fun. But eventually you feel like you probably start to repeat and get into certain things down the road, how you're doing with everything else kind of comes into play and making sure that you prioritize yourself first and not taking on too many projects or too many activities, whatever it may be. But I want to ask you, because you've been rolling around with this photography thing, when you were first getting started, was it just something that just kind of clicked and you're like, damn, I'm good at shooting photos, or is it like something you had to learn? Did you take any kind of class or read, read anything up on how to get into it, or do you just totally free, whatever, and people just happen to love what you do so there was a big risk factor there, um, because, funny enough, I did buy my first camera before I even knew how to turn a camera on.

Speaker 2: 11:57

So, yeah, so it. It was like a huge, just like shot in the dark kind of thing. I was bored during covid. I was like I'm gonna buy a camera. I'd never used a digital camera before, um, but I guess once you, once you're invested enough to spend, you know, a few hundred bucks on a camera, um, there's sort of like a, like an incentive there. It's just like okay, well, I've already, you know, invested in this. You know it's time to sit down and learn this right. So, um, right now. I mean we, I think people take for granted, like, how much free information is out there right now in 2024.

Speaker 2: 12:36

It's insane, um, and I think anybody can pretty much become very, very confident, borderline professional level, just on free information that's out there on youtube I just I'm just, I would just sit down and watch hours and hours of youtube videos and there are just photographers on there that are like huge photographers that are, that are putting all of their life lessons and all of their photography expertise out there for free.

Speaker 2: 13:05

And it's just like and this isn't just in photography, it's in every everything. You know what I mean, like the amount, the amount of information out there that we can take advantage of that people just don't take advantage of. It's just insane to me, like it's just, you know, so I, I would just sit down for hours, you know, I mean like, thankfully I was interested in it, so it wasn't even it was fun for me, but I would just sit and watch, you know, youtube videos on photography with my camera out, learn about all the different settings, start snapping photos around my house, start figuring out how everything works, um, and you know, I was able to learn it fairly quickly. Um, and obviously, the more you practice, the better you get.

Speaker 2: 13:41

So just having you know friends and um other models around that are just open to like working with like a novice photographer, that that was also amazing, um yeah you know, you just you just get out there and you just you just um implement what you've learned and then you go back to the drawing board and learn some more and get back out there and practice some more, and that's just kind of the.

Speaker 1: 14:02

That's the cycle yeah, the whole uh, trial and errors and like it's so beneficial because that's where you can really craft and specialize in your own like skills and like themes or your own personal touch on certain things. But that also comes with another thing too. So if someone's trying to start something and they are, they genuinely need to get to that faster or higher Level quality or whatever at a faster rate, like I said all the time, like, as you said, there's endless free information out there. Like I said all the time, like, as you said, there's endless free information out there. But if you hire like a coach or someone who are like a mentor, a role model or somebody, you're basically paying for their experience to fast track you to that Um, so you, you do get there much quicker, but then the downside of what I was just saying is you lose your personal touch to it.

Speaker 1: 14:55

So, like I see it all the time, like personal trainers, they all kind of have like their own ideas and theories that they kind of adapt for their coaching and you can kind of tell where they learn their coaching, their skills, their form and stuff like that from because of these different schools of thought and you know long enough like you can go through all these different things, but eventually you have to have your own spin and twist on certain things. So I wanted to ask you about that what makes your photography unique or different from somebody else's?

Speaker 2: 15:28

So I think what you said is extremely important. First of all and the best coaches will actually tell you to your face hey, I don't want you to think that, like, my advice and my coaching is the end-all be-all. I want you to take what I say and implement the things you like and then throw out the things you don't like, because I'm not, you know, my word is not final. You know what I mean and I think that's so important for coaches to emphasize because, um, at the end of the day, like you're not trying to become your coach, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 16:03

And the way that we we get really good at things is I I kind of call it like the grocery store approach. You like walk down the aisle of the grocery store and you pick out the things you like. You don't pick out the things you don't like and then you kind of use the information that you like to create your own kind of vision. So I think that's super, super, super important. Yeah, that's super powerful, yeah, so what was the second part of your question?

Speaker 1: 16:30

Oh, I was asking what makes your photography more unique and specific to you? How do you stand out in the world of art and creativity?

Speaker 2: 16:41

You know, um, it's hard to say right now because I'm still developing so much, but I think that it's. It's just I would say that myself, as well as other photographers, we're all kind of just a mix of different things that we've drawn inspiration from. Um, so, like I, you know, I was following a bunch of photographers and and I took that, took things that I liked from them and I kind of implemented my own vision too. Um, but I, I like to take a lot of like captivating, sort of like close-up, like headshot kind of photos. Um, I, I like to um, I like to like encourage my models to kind of give me like very natural poses. I don't like to coach them too much, but I like to like make sure that they're just doing what feels right to them, because I feel like when a model feels really comfortable and she feels like she's just doing what you know feels right to her, it really comes out in the photo. So it's a lot of that um and yeah, just drawing inspiration.

Speaker 2: 17:45

I've I've emailed so many photographers and just been like, hey, like I love your work, like I, you know. Um, I was wondering like what, do you have any advice, like what, what, like how you like are able to like create such compelling images? Um, so, it's a lot of just like networking with other photographers, drawing inspiration, and then you sort of just start to like meld things and just like, when it comes to like actually taking the photos, um it just it just kind of it almost becomes like unconscious. It's kind of just like okay, I kind of see this where this is going, I kind of like how this looks, how that looks, and then you kind of just let the photo speak for itself at the end of the day.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Yeah, and I wanted to touch on something there, because you referenced your grocery store kind of framework or idea or thought about going through, picking out the things you like and don't like, and I feel like that is so true too. When I first started out coaching, I was like, oh, this is how it's got to go, it's got to be exactly like that. And then as I began to grow and evolve as a coach and become more experienced, I started giving my clients the freedom to kind of pick and choose and just giving them the information on how to choose and give them the different options and they could kind of build their own plan and grow and build and set up strategies to help them make breakthroughs and achieve success in whatever their goals might be. And I wanted to. I thought it was great there how you were referencing connecting with the different models and kind of making sure that they feel natural. Connecting with the different models and kind of making sure that they feel natural.

Speaker 1: 19:19

And I love working with new people because they have their own sets of struggles, challenges and goals. And then it makes it a unique and it's kind of challenging for me because I like that little flow state where I'm like okay, let's work this together and kind of see how it goes. Do you experience that, when they're starting to kind of get into their natural kind of flow of different things that they're doing, and you now you're kind of like taking what they're giving you and then kind of and like, okay, yeah, let's do a little bit of this, or does that make sense of what I'm trying to say?

Speaker 2: 19:47

yeah, you mean just like feeding off each other. Yes, exactly, yep, that's. I mean, that's the whole thing. Yeah, absolutely, um. I think that, um, and it really makes a difference.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Like, the chemistry between a photographer and a model is huge, especially because a lot of models like, if they just aren't on the same page as their photographer, like it'll show in the photo, like I can tell right away at this point, like I see it, you just see it, it's just like, okay, she's not really feeling that comfortable, like she feels weird about this, this particular shot. Or you know that I could tell like oh, this isn't really what you want to be doing, like um, but whenever, whenever you start to feed off each other and you build a lot of chemistry with with the model, um, that's when, uh, that's when you really get some really awesome shots. I was actually just shooting with one of my models yesterday and she was just like I kind of like this, but why don't we do this thing? Because there was a little phone, I don't know. We were on the tennis court and there was a little phone thing. She was like, wouldn't it be fun? There was like a little like phone thing.

Speaker 2: 20:58

She was like wouldn't it be fun if, like I was, like, did like a little like phone like theme thing where I'm like calling someone or something, I don't know, but you know what I mean, like when you just like let your model be creative and then you kind of add your own touch of creativity to whatever's going on it can create some pretty cool images, so I think that's super, super important.

Speaker 1: 21:18

Yeah, and I love that you emphasize the chemistry to that. Now, what happens when you're working with somebody and you don't have that chemistry? Can you still create a good product, or is it like so forth, where it's like you're like hey man, maybe we should reconvene at another time.

Speaker 2: 21:37

This just isn't working today, kind of thing no, I wouldn't say that you can't create good photos. If you it's not, you know. You know you can still create good photography, um, especially if you're too professional, then you both know what you're doing, even if you're not like collaborating necessarily on exactly what each other want. Um, you know, it's there's a lot, there's a lot of compromise that goes into it too. You know, I mean like, photography is a lot kind of it's just it's almost like a metaphor for life. In a lot of ways, it's like there's just so many like life lessons that come from photography. It's like, yeah, you know, chemistry is important, but also compromise is important.

Speaker 2: 22:10

Sometimes, you, it's better to just like leave certain things um the way they are. Sometimes it's better to try to like fix them, and the more experience you get with it, the more you understand, like, how to pick your spots and understand, like, okay, what's worth it, what's not worth it? Um, and there's just a lot of freedom there. So, no, I mean like, if a lot of and a lot of a lot of photo shoots are not necessarily meant to be creative, you know, a lot of them is just like okay, it's just like pure digital, like here's exactly how you're going to pose model on board. You're on board, that's exactly what you're going to do, and that can you. You can create a lot of compelling images that way too. So there's no hard and fast rules um.

Speaker 2: 22:51

But yeah, I think that chemistry comes into play in certain types of shoots and that it can be.

Speaker 1: 22:55

It can be really, really important so if someone comes to you and they have like a really creative kind of idea, do you have, have you encountered or do you have any kind of like a vetting process or like an initial kind of like getting to know each other thing?

Speaker 1: 23:12

So, like I know, when I'm working bringing on new clients and someone's interested in working with me it's not always people come to me and then it's just as much of an interview for them as it is for me. I got to make sure that I'm working with, I can work with them and I can communicate with them. If they're somebody who just isn't open to coaching and they're so set in their ways and that's not how I go about certain things I've turned down certain clients before because me not seeing that would be a right fit. Now, do you ever see that with certain people and you're like I don't know if I can do that kind of thing, or does that kind of ever get into play? A factor where you just know off the bat it's like, oh, this is going to be a weird chemistry, I don't know if this is going to work.

Speaker 2: 24:03

I think naturally, like certain people just have more chemistry with certain people than they do with others.

Speaker 2: 24:05

I think that's you know what I mean. Like you're not gonna like have this like unbelievable chemistry with everyone you meet, um. So you know, yeah, like you'll, you'll, you'll work. You're gonna work with people, um, that you differ from in a lot of ways, a lot of the time, but you know it's not the end of the world. I think that as long as you know you're working with somebody and there's an underlying understanding that you know you're professionals and you're both trying to make this work to the best extent possible, as long as you have that underlying understanding, I think that that's enough to make a decent product. But yeah, I mean I forgot where I was going with this, but yeah, I mean it's just there's a, you know there's, there's there's different approaches to everything, um, and even if you're not going to have, like, the best relationship with somebody, I think that, um, having a having just starting off on the right page, I think is the most important thing. And then from there, like, obviously, the more chemistry, the better.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Yeah. So I wanted to kind of bring it back towards like the food industry and such. Now, when you go in, do you set things up ahead of time, when you have like a shoot with a certain restaurant, or do you just kind of like bring your camera in and start letting things roll? What's that kind of look like?

Speaker 2: 25:28

So that's how I started out. Uh, what's that kind of look like? So that's how I started out. I started out literally just coming in and, just like you know, taking taking video on my own, and just like people thought I looked a little weird and I was like whatever, like I'm trying to make some content here, I'm trying to start something. That's how it started out. Um, at this point, it's all. It's all very much um, pre, uh, pre-arranged, um, I'll have restaurants emailing me.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Hey, I love your page, I love your content, I'd love to have you in. And then I'll come in, they'll bring me into the kitchen a lot of the time and I'll just start videoing. I'll start videoing everything and I'll start. They'll tell me what they're kind of looking to feature and then I'll kind of work with them and I'll, you know, just try to make some captivating content for them. And then I get to the editing and I make it look all fun and cool and that's pretty much it.

Speaker 1: 26:22

Nice. So the editing process, because I know I'm not really too skilled with the whole tech tech side of things, but like that's gotta be a lot of hours right, like going through everything.

Speaker 2: 26:34

You gotta re-watch so many, so many clips and such like yeah, not as bad, as it seems, or as bad as it seems you you get really quick at it the more you do it. Um, and the other thing that I love about these, these creative endeavors, is that there's no such thing as like right or wrong, and like nothing has to be perfect and nobody notices anyway. Um, you know what I mean. And like sometimes, like a little bit of like an imperfection here or there can actually like add some charm to your content. You can add some charm to your video or your photo. So there's like really really like, no hard and fast rules and there's no right or wrong, and so just understanding that that like your content just has to be good enough and you know, it doesn't have to be perfect, that gives you a lot of freedom in the whole process and it really speeds things up, things up. So I think just learning how to not be a perfectionist is honestly one of the most important things that you can learn when you're doing anything creative.

Speaker 1: 27:37

Yeah, yeah, I love that because when I first got into public speaking and presenting, I just remember being super nervous about giving a or or something and having to memorize everything. And if I screwed up, I was like freaking out in my head and, uh, a good friend of mine told me he was like dude, nobody knows what you're gonna say.

Speaker 2: 27:59

so if you screw up or forget something, if you can act cool and just keep it moving, no one's gonna know and everyone's gonna think it's you did it on purpose or you just start continuing the way you're supposed to notice, like most of the time it's just like funny and it just adds a little bit of, like you know, intrigue or a little bit of humor to your, to your speech or whatever. So I really I always try to emphasize like it's just not that important, it's not doesn't have to be perfect, and like everything, kind of, as long as you, as long as you like, blend everything together and everything ends up feeling natural, then you're good.

Speaker 1: 28:34

Yeah, more kind of go with the flow, and it shows that human aspect. I feel like too many people do tend to get into that perfectionist kind of state where almost as if it's not perfect, then it's not even worth like kind of unveiling or getting it rolling.

Speaker 2: 28:56

Yeah, no, that's a dangerous road to go down. That's all I can say about that.

Speaker 1: 28:59

So I'm guessing you're pretty go with the flow personality in everyday life or do you have, like, any perfectionist tendencies in different areas?

Speaker 2: 29:09

Well, no, I mean like I think there's certain things in life that are more important than others and there's certain things in life that require more perfection than others.

Speaker 1: 29:16

No.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Yeah. So just striking that balance, taking your thoughts, understanding, um, understanding what kind of work you're doing and how important perfection is for any given endeavor Uh, I think it's really big. You know, as, as an attorney, like I can't afford to like, oh yeah, fuck certain things up. But I can definitely afford to fuck things up, um, with video creation, content, stuff like that, it's just not the end of the world and at a certain point it just becomes like what's more important, like getting this content out, or like spending five hours like fixing one little thing that no one's going to notice and that doesn't even necessarily make the content any worse.

Speaker 1: 29:55

Anyway, you know, true, true. But so say, say, somebody else, though, was starting their. They were starting like an entrepreneurial life and they're starting off with just like the side hustle, but they wanted, want it to go and they want to switch over to that full time. Obviously, then you're going to need to prioritize and put more effort and care into what you're doing. But what if someone's stuck in that perfectionist state Because I know people who just wait and wait and wait because they're trying to refine, refine and refine how do you think someone can switch out of that and just be like get it started, just to go with it? Is it just like a kick from somebody?

Speaker 2: 30:38

Yeah, I think that you just kind of have to take that dive and just try doing something, without try maybe pushing certain things out there, without being a perfectionist about it, and see what happens. And then I think that you're going to notice that all of those extra hours you were spending being a perfectionist weren't worth it, and you're going to notice that you're putting out a lot more content a lot more quickly, and you're going to notice that you're growing at a much more rapid speed whenever you just let go of certain perfectionist qualities you used to have.

Speaker 1: 31:14

Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. So many more people need to just take that leap and maybe not like start small and just kind of let it roll Right, like the dominoes effect you were talking about earlier.

Speaker 2: 31:28

Yeah, you got to exactly like, you have to gain momentum, and if your perfectionism is causing you not to gain that momentum, then you're doing something wrong. I mean, you just got to start putting yourself out there. You've got to get in front of people's eyeballs one way or another. So I encourage people to you know, sometimes quantity really is better than quality, like, even even though like that's that's not like the uh prevailing wisdom, like in today's age. Like you, you gotta you gotta have stuff out there and you gotta be. You know, um, you gotta be efficient and you gotta be, you gotta be pushing out stuff. So you gotta have, you gotta have people looking at your stuff. At the end of the day, yeah, gotta get it going somewhere.

Speaker 1: 32:12

Absolutely so with with the photography businesses. Is that something where, if it did blow up and grow and it was so like taken over, would that be something where you might quit the normal everyday life and just do this like pursue that full time?

Speaker 2: 32:30

I don't think so. I don't think so, I don't think so. Um, because, um, first of all, I'm just not the type of person to like. I don't think I'm, I just don't think I'm ever going to be the type of person to just dedicate or put all my eggs in one basket. Um, I just have many interests and too many things I enjoy doing, and I think that photography specifically, it's just not necessarily a huge moneymaker as an industry. So I think that just my ability to keep it light and keep it as a kind of like a side thing and keep it as a hobby, it's been tremendously fulfilling for me to have that. Obviously, I'm not not gonna like shy away from it growing as much as it can, but, yeah, I don't think it's ever going to become like a whole thing for me and I'm totally happy with it the way it is yeah, cool, I love that.

Speaker 1: 33:23

So it's genuinely just out of the enjoyment and and the fun of uh taking the photos and connecting with people yeah, you can't sacrifice the joy of it.

Speaker 2: 33:34

You really can't. I, I, I genuinely believe that, um once the joy is out of it, I, I don't think. I don't think you're gonna, you're gonna be too happy with what you're doing yeah, it's gonna be much more difficult to get things around.

Speaker 1: 33:48

Um, I I do want to be courteous of your time and I know we're kind of uh closing up a little bit here, but I want to make it, make sure that we have a good chance here to follow you and stay in touch with you. Uh, so what? Where do people find you in some of your work and all your stuff?

Speaker 2: 34:07

Yeah, um, so thanks for asking. Um, please follow me. My photography is going to be uh kino visions k-i-n-o dot visions. It's a play on the german word for uh cinema, so I don't know, for some reason. I thought it sounded cool that uh and uh, you can follow my foodie creation content at um hidden eats la. All one word, just hidden eats la on instagram. Um, and yeah, I appreciate any follows nice, um.

Speaker 1: 34:40

So before we roll, though, dude, I gotta ask you if you were to boil it all down. I know we talked about a couple different things here with the power of uh, keeping things fun, uh, making sure that networking is a priority, and just getting started and not waiting until it's perfect. But if you were to boil it all down, what would be your number one piece of advice for someone to survive the side hustle?

Speaker 2: 35:02

Just let go of your limiting beliefs, man. I think that people are just bogged down by this idea that things are too far-fetched and that, like, I'll never get good at something and it's just not worth the the effort. And it's like you, you see other people doing it. It's like why can't you be doing the same thing? Like you have two arms, two legs, hopefully, even if you don't, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 35:26

Um, you have a brain that functions like. You can pick something up, watch some youtube videos, talk to people, learn things. Um, and there's no reason you can't, there's no reason you're not enough. Um, and don't listen to people, because people are gonna try to reinforce your limiting beliefs. People are gonna tell you, like, do that, stupid, don't do that. Um, where it's like, how are you gonna make money doing that? Yada, yada, yada, um, don't, don't play into. Whereas, like, how are you going to make money doing that? Yada, yada, yada, don't, don't play into that. People. People just get uncomfortable with people starting new things. So then it forces them to think about why they're not doing trying new things. So just believe in yourself and just go for it.

Speaker 1: 36:05

That's all I got to say, yeah, dude, I love it. Yeah, dude, I love it. Thank you so much and I appreciate you coming on and taking the time. Dude, it was great to chat up with you a little bit.

Speaker 2: 36:13

I really appreciate it, Rob. This was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 36:16

Cool Talk to you soon, peace.